Committee Reports::Final Report - Northern Ireland Relief Expenditure::29 June, 1971::Proceedings of the Joint Committee

An Teachta Pádraig Ó hÓgáin (i gCeannas), na Teachtaí Baróid, R. de Búrca, E. Ó Coileáin, Mac Gearailt, A. Mac Giobúin. Céitinn, Mac Searraigh agus Ó Nualláin.

3. Bhí E. P. Sutail (An tArd-Reachtaire Cuntas agus Ciste) i láthair i gcáil chomhairleach, agus S. Mac Gearailt ina theannta.

4. Níor ghéill an Coiste d’iarratas ón Teachta Ó Nualláin go socrófaí péiriú i leith an Teachta Uí Thonnaigh a bhí. a dúirt sé, thar lear ar ghnó oifigiúil.

5. Chuir an Coiste san áireamh breithiúnas na Cúirte Uachtaraí i gcás an Choiste agus P. Uí Eochaidh.

Ordaíodh: go dtabharfadh an Cathaoirleach an ráiteas seo a leanas do na nuachtáin:—

“The Committee is proceeding with the inquiry as ordered by the Dáil, and when it has completed the taking of evidence it will make a report to the Dáil.”,

agus go gcuirfeadh an Cathaoirleach in iúl go raibh breithniú á dhéanamh i dtaobh tuarascáil eatramhach a chur amach.

8. Thug an Coiste dá aire an ráiteas a rinne an Teachta Mac Searraigh leis á rá go raibh an tairiscint ar tugadh fógra faoi an 24 Meitheamh ina ainm féin agus in ainm an Teachta Uí Thonnaigh á chur siar mar gheall ar an Teachta Ó Tonnaigh a bheith thar lear ar ghnó oifigiúil agus ag féachaint do chinneadh an lae inniu ón gCoiste de réir mar a chuir an Cathaoirleach in iúl é.

“That Mr. John Kelly and Mr. Paraic Haughey be summoned at the earliest date to give evidence and that if they fail to attend or refuse to answer relevant questions legally required to be answered, an interim report be made to the Dáil seeking substitute legislation.”

Ordaíodh: go ndéanfaí é a thaifeadadh in imeachtaí an Choiste go ndúirt an Teachta Ó Nualláin gurbh é a bharúil go raibh iarbhír dhá thairiscint ar áireamh i dtairiscint an Teachta Mhic Gearailt.

De réir fhorálacha Bhuan-Ordú 72, toisc gurbh ionann líon na vótaí ar an dá thaobh, cinneadh freagra diúltach a thabhairt ar an gCeist.

1. In its Interim Report to the Dáil of 15th December, 1970 the Committee stated in paragraph 7:—

‘During the Dáil debate on the motion referring the examination of the expenditure of the Grant-in-Aid to the Committee the question as to whether the Committee had power to compel attendance of witnesses was adverted to. No provision was made by the Dáil to settle the matter apparently on the basis that, if it transpired that lack of this power made the Committee’s procedure inadequate, it would be open to the Committee to report back to the Dáil. The Dáil could then decide what action to take, Should the House now decide to take legislative action as suggested by the Committee, the Committee further suggests that the opportunity be taken to resolve this matter also.’

2. The Committee of Public Accounts of Dáil Éireann (Privilege and Procedure) Bill, 1970, was introduced in the Dáil by the Minister for Finance on 16th December, 1970 and subsequently passed by both Houses of the Oireachtas and enacted. This Act dealt in section 3 with the power of the Committee to summon witnesses and to require the production of documents.

3. The Supreme Court in the case of the Committee of Public Accounts and Haughey in the judgement delivered on 24th June, 1971 has ruled that subsection (4) of the above mentioned section 3 violates Article 38 of the Constitution and is, therefore, invalid.

4. The enactment of the legislation recognised that the effective discharge of the duty placed by the Dáil on the Committee required that it be enabled to invoke the due process of law in respect of any person who frustrated the lawful requirements of the Committee. From its experience, the Committee is satisfied that without the legislative action of the Oireachtas it could not have adequately carried out the instructions of Dáil Éireann. Although it has made substantial progress in its work, evidence pertinent to the proper investigation of the matter referred to it by the Dáil remains to be heard. Its view is that it is very doubtful if it will be able to secure some of this evidence, unless amending legislation according with the judgement of the Supreme Court is enacted. The Committee therefore requests the Dáil to introduce legislation immediately which accords with the intention of the Oireachtas in enacting the Committee of Public Accounts (Privilege and Procedure) Act, 1970, but which meets the objections of the Supreme Court decisions.

5. The Committee informed the Dáil in its Interim Report of 15th December that it had adopted a number of procedures to govern its examination. These procedures were set out in Appendix 3 of the Report. Procedure (iii) was as follows:—

‘(iii) The Committee will allow witnesses to be accompanied, solely for the purpose of consultation, by counsel, solicitors or advisors as may be determined by the Committee in each relevant case. Such counsel, solicitors or advisors will not, however, be permitted to examine any witness nor to address the Committee.’

6. The Supreme Court has held that a witness whose conduct has been impugned as part of the subject matter of the examination should be allowed the right to have his counsel cross-examine the accuser and to address the Committee. The Committee propose to amend the procedure to accord with this ruling.

‘The Committee shall examine the expenditure … of any moneys transferred by the Irish Red Cross Society to a bank account into which monies from this Vote [Vote 16] were or may have been lodged.…’

The Supreme Court has ruled that the examination of monies belonging to the Irish Red Cross Society, not being monies granted by the Dáil to meet the public expenditure, is outside the functions of the Committee as defined by Standing Order 127, save only to the extent of segregating such monies from monies issued from subhead J of Vote 16. This ruling qualifies the Order made by the Dáil, and its effects and any required action in relation to it are matters for the consideration of the Dáil.”

De réir fhorálacha Bhuan-Ordú 72, toisc gurbh ionann líon na vótaí ar an dá thaobh, cinneadh freagra diúltach a thabhairt ar an gceist.

11. Ordaíodh: go gcuirfí toghairm go dtí Seán Ó Ceallaigh* agus Páraic Ó hEochaidh† chun bheith i láthair Dé Máirt, 6 Iúil, 1971.

12. Ordaíodh: go ndéanfaí foirm na toghairme chun finnéithe a leasú d’fhonn cuireadh a thabhairt do fhinnéithe doiciméid a chur isteach in ionad sin a iarraidh orthu.

13. Ordaíodh: go gcealófaí nós imeachta (iii) de na nósanna imeachta lenar ghlac an Coiste agus go nglacfaí leis an nós imeachta (iii) nua seo a leanas:

“(iii) The Committee allows witnesses to be accompanied by counsel, solicitors or advisors. A witness who states to the Committee that his conduct has been impugned as part of the subject matter of the examination may apply to the Committee to be allowed the right to have his counsel cross-examine the accuser and to address the Committee.”

14. Ordaíodh: go mbeadh téacs an nós imeachta (iii) nua i bhfoirm na toghairme agus go mbeadh ann freisin ráiteas go ndéanfadh an finné, má bhíonn sé ar intinn aige leas a bhaint as an nós imeachta, fógra 24 uaire a thabhairt i dtaobh é a bheith ar intinn aige amhlaidh.

15. Ordaíodh: go ndéanfadh an Coiste aturnae agus abhcóide a fhruiliú dá dtabharfadh na himthosca gur ghá sin, go lorgófaí cead an Aire Airgeadais* don chaiteachas ba ghá, go gcuirfí in iúl don Aire go dteastaíonn ón gCoiste bheith in ann aturnae agus abhcóide a fhruiliú maidir lena chruinniú Dé Máirt, 6 Iúil agus go gcuirfí an nós imeachta (iii) nua i bhfios dó.

16. Ordaíodh: go bhfiafrófaí den Phríomh-Aturnae Stáit an mbeadh sé sásta gníomhú don Choiste agus abhcóide a fhruiliú thar a cheann, faoi réir cheadú an Aire Airgeadais a fháil maidir leis an gcaiteachas ba ghá.

IMEACHTAÍ AN CHOISTE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

Dé Máirt, 29 Meitheamh, 1971.

Tuesday, 29 June, 1971.