Committee Reports > List of Committees > Dáil > 1970 > Committee of Public Accounts > Final Report - Northern Ireland Relief Expenditure

IMEACHTAÍ AN CHOMHCHOISTE

Proceedings of the Committee

Déardaoin, 10 Nollaig, 1970.

Thursday, 10 December, 1970.

1. The Committee met at 11 a.m.

2. Members Present.

The following members were present:—

Deputies Barrett, Briscoe, R. Burke, E. Collins, Fitzgerald, H. Gibbons, P. Hogan, Keating, MacSharry, Nolan, Treacy, and Tunney.

3. Election of Chairman.

Motion made (Deputy Nolan):

“That Deputy Patrick Hogan be the Chairman of the Committee.”

Question put and agreed to.

Deputy Hogan took the Chair accordingly.

4. Ordered: that the Committee sit in public during the taking of evidence by it, but that, in consideration of the nature of the matter to be examined, the Chairman be empowered at his discretion to exclude persons during the taking of certain evidence.

5. The Committee considered to what extent Article 15.12 and 15.13 of the Constitution applied to members of the Committee and to witnesses appearing before it. It took into consideration that a related legal point was stated in the Report of the Committee on the Constitution, December 1967 to have been considered by that Committee, and to have been referred to the Attorney General for examination by a legal committee under his chairmanship.

Ordered: that inquiries be made as to whether the opinion of the legal committee, if available, could be communicated to the Committee.

6. Ordered: that counsel be engaged in connection with the matter referred to in paragraph 5 above, that the sanction of the Minister for Finance be sought for the necessary expenditure, and that counsel be consulted also in relation to procedures to be adopted by the Committee.

7. Ordered: that the evidence of all witnesses examined before the Committee be taken on oath, or, for good reason, by affirmation.

8. Ordered: that the Ceann Comhairle be asked to authorise the Secretary of the Committee, in accordance with section 3 of the Oireachtas Witnesses Oaths, Act, 1924, to administer oaths.

9. Ordered: that should a witness decline to take the oath or to make an affirmation he be requested to state his reasons, and that the Committee then deliberate on the matter.

10. Ordered: that witnesses may be accompanied, solely for the purpose of consultation, by counsel, solicitors or advisors as may be determined by the Committee in each relevant case; but that such counsel, solicitors or advisors be not permitted to examine any witness nor to address the Committee.

11. Ordered: that a request by a witness for good reason that his name be not published will be favourably considered.

12. Sitting suspended.

The sitting was suspended at 1.45 p.m. until 6.30 p.m. today. The Committee met again at 6.30 p.m.

13. The Committee noted with appreciation the receipt from the Taoiseach of “Advance Extract from report of Attorney General’s committee on legal points referred to the Attorney General by the allParty Committee on the Constitution.”* The Committee also noted with appreciation that this document was made available without restriction on its use by the Committee.

14. Ordered: that the Secretary be authorised to engage counsel and to brief him (i) on the matter referred to at paragraph 5 above, (ii) on procedures adopted by the Committee and (iii) as to whether the Committee could or should proceed with the matter referred to it without seeking the enactment of legislation in relation to the subject matter of paragraph 5; and that counsel be invited to attend the next meeting.

15. Ordered: that the first meeting of the Committee at which evidence is to be taken be held in Room 91, and that inquiries be made as to the availability of the Seanad Chambers for meetings.†

16. Ordered: that the numbers of persons to be admitted to public meetings of the Committee in the categories (a) members of the Houses, (b) authorised press representatives and (c) others be determined by the Secretary in consultation with the House authorities.

17. Ordered: that an Order of the Dáil be sought for the printing of each day’s evidence together with relevant appendices.

18. Ordered: that the circulation of the unrevised minutes of evidence be the same as for Dáil debates and that the Stationery Office be asked to ensure that an adequate supply be available.

19. Ordered: that the unrevised minutes of his evidence be supplied to each witness and that he be informed that no alterations or corrections may be made, and that if he desires to correct any part of the evidence he must apply to the Committee who may re-examine him.

20. Ordered: that witnesses be summoned by letter delivered to them personally or by registered post.

21. Ordered: that witnesses be invited to furnish preliminary statements, and requested to furnish in advance, or, if this is not practicable, to bring with them to the Committee all relevant documents in their possession, power or procurement.

22. Ordered: that the refusal or failure of any person summoned to give evidence to attend be considered by the Committee in each individual case.

23. Ordered: that witnesses be repaid their actual and necessary travelling expenses, that they also be paid subsistence allowances and allowances for loss of earnings in accordance with appropriate regulations, but that expenditure received by witnesses arising from their being accompanied by counsel, solicitors or advisors be not reimbursed to them.

24. Ordered: that the questioning of witnesses be initiated by the Chairman, who shall also put to each witness such questions as the Committee may decide, and that each member of the Committee may then put questions on being called by the Chairman.

25. Ordered: that where a witness objects to or refuses to answer a question, he be requested by the Chairman to state his reasons, and that the Chairman may exclude persons where such an issue arises.

26. Ordered: that a transcript be sought of the relevant portions of the evidence given at the recent Arms Trial.

27. Ordered: that interpreters be engaged as required.

28. Ordered: that the Comptroller and Auditor General be invited to attend the next meeting.

29. Ordered: that an interim report be made before commencing the taking of evidence, the report to include such details of the procedures adopted as the Committee determines.

30. Ordered: that witnesses be furnished in advance with a copy of the interim report when made.

31. Ordered: that inquiries be made as to whether mechanical recording of evidence taken could be put into operation, and that arrangements be made to relay the taking of evidence to another room, if necessary.

32. Adjournment.

The Committee adjourned at 9 p.m. until 4 p.m. on Tuesday next, 15th December.

* Appendix 1 of the Interim Report of the Committee of 15th December 1970.

† Appendix 4 (24).