Committee Reports > List of Committees > Joint > 1961 > Committee on Electoral Law > Joint Committee on Interim, 2nd Interim, 3rd Interim and Final Reports - Electoral Law

IIMEACHTAÍ AN CHOMHCHOISTE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

Dé Céadaoin, 31 Bealtaine, 1961.

Wednesday, 31st May, 1961.

1. Chruinnigh an Comhchoiste ar 4 p.m.

2. Comhaltaí i Láthair.

Bhí na comhaltaí seo a leanas i láthair:—

An Teachta Ó hÉaluighthe (i gCeannas), na Teachtaí Booth, Seán de Brún, Ó Ceit, Loughman, Ó Neachtain agus Suatman, na Seanadóiri Mac Giolla Chomhghaill, Stráinse, Ó Maoláin agus Ó Riain.

3. An Dréacht-Tuarascáil Dheiridh ón gComhchoiste.

D’athchrom an Comhchoiste ar bhreithniú a dhéanamh ar an Dréacht-Tuarascáil Dheiridh.

(i) Cuireadh míreanna 31, 32 agus 33 ar atráth.

(ii) Aontaíodh míreanna 34 go 42 go huile.

(iii) Mír 43.

Léadh an mhír mar a leanas:

“In connection with the proposal that polling day should be proclaimed a national holiday the Joint Committee discussed the question of making voting compulsory. Subsection 2° of section 1 of Article 16 of the Constitution provides—

‘Every citizen without distinction of sex who has reached the age of twenty-one years who is not disqualified by law and complies with the provisions of the law relating to the election of members of Dáil Éireann, shall have the right to vote at an election for members of Dáil Éireann’.”

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“To add to the paragraph the following words:

‘The Joint Committee obtained legal advice which was to the effect that legislation to introduce compulsory voting would probably be unconstitutional. In the circumstances the Committee makes no recommendation on the point’.”

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Aontaíodh an mhír, mar a leasaíodh.

(iv) Aontaíodh míreanna 44 agus 45.

(v) Mír 46.

Léadh an mhír mar a leanas:

“Section 26 and rule 22 of the Fifth Schedule to the Act further provide that at the time of voting the ballot paper shall be marked on both sides with the official mark. This is taken to mean that it must be stamped on both sides. With the percussion stamps now in use a mark made on one side of the paper is clearly apparent on the other side and stamping the ballot paper twice not only wastes time but tends to tear the paper. The Joint Committee recommends that the law should be amended so as to provide that the ballot paper should be marked so that the official mark is apparent on both sides.”

Tairgeadh leasú (An Teachta Ó Ceit):

“To add to the paragraph the following words:

‘The Committee also recommends that the form of the ballot paper should be amended to provide for the inclusion thereon of a space for the impression of the official mark. This will tend to remind presiding officers of the absolute necessity of marking ballot papers before issue’.”

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Aontaíodh an mhír, mar a leasaíodh.

(vi) Aontaíodh mír 47.

(vii) Mír 48.

Léadh an mhír mar a leanas:

“A matter to which the Joint Committee gave much consideration is the practice of writing on the ballot paper counterfoils each elector’s number on the register of electors as he is handed his ballot paper at an election.”

Tairgeadh leasú (An Teachta Booth):

“To add to the paragraph the following words:

‘The practice is required by subsection (3) of section 26 and rule 22 of the Fifth Schedule of the Electoral Act, 1923, and was devised so that an invalid vote could be identified and disallowed should the need arise, on petition. The practice does, however, give rise to public disquiet and the Committee felt it desirable to go in detail into the provisions dealing with the question especially in view of Article 16.1.4° of the Constitution which provides:

‘No voter may exercise more than one vote at an election for Dáil Éireann, and the voting shall be by secret ballot.”

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Aontaíodh an mhír, mar a leasaíodh.

(viii) Míreanna nua.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘Under rules 19 and 49 of the Fifth Schedule to the Electoral Act, 1923, as amended, apart from electors casting their votes and the helpers of blind and incapacitated voters, only the presiding officer, the poll clerks, Gardaí on duty, the candidates and their agents may be allowed in the polling station. Rule 52 requires the officials and agents, before polling commences, to sign an undertaking to preserve the secrecy of the ballot and there are penalties for any infringement of secrecy. Polling stations are so arranged as to enable the voters to vote in secrecy and they must place their ballot papers, folded, in the ballot box, which is sealed’.”

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin.”

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘As soon as practicable after the close of poll, the presiding officer must make up in separate packets, sealed with his own seal, in the presence of the agents, a number of documents including the marked copy of the register and the ballot paper counterfoils. Such agents as may wish to do so may affix their seals to the packets, which are then sent to the returning officer. (The Joint Committee has agreed at paragraph 80 to the proposal to make it clear statutorily that the counterfoils (which are secret) and the marked copies of the register (which are not) are put in separate packets)’.”

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘During the counting of votes the returning officer, under rule 32, must see that all ballot papers are kept face upwards and that all proper precautions are taken to prevent the numbers printed on their backs being seen by anyone. The provisions of rule 52 and section 28 as to the preservation of secrecy, referred to above, also apply’.”

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘Rule 35 provides that the returning officer shall not open the packets containing the marked register and the counterfoils. He must send then to the Clerk of the Dáil, who must keep them unopened for a year and then destroy them, unless otherwise directed by an Order of the Dáil or High Court’.”

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘Under rule 39, no person may, except by order of the Dáil or of a tribunal having cognizance of petitions complaining of undue returns or elections, open the sealed packets of counterfoils. The rule provides that care must be taken that the mode in which an elector voted is not discovered until he has been proved to have voted and his vote has been declared invalid by a competent court. Section 38 provides that no person who has voted in an election shall, in any legal proceeding to question the election, be required to say how he has voted. The marked copies of the register may be inspected subject to such regulations as may be prescribed by the Clerk of the Dáil’.”

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:—

“Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘The Joint Committee is satisfied that the observance of these provisions ensures that the way in which a particular elector voted cannot be ascertained unless his vote has been declared invalid by a competent court.”’

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘Since 1922 there has been no petition questioning the return of an election of a member to the Dáil. At local elections there have been two petitions. However, neither of these involved a scrutiny of the ballot papers. The Committee feels that it is justifiable to ask why, therefore, should the practice of marking ballot paper counterfoils with the elector’s number be continued.”’

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

Tairgeadh leasú (An Seanadóir Ó Maoláin):

“Before paragraph 49 to insert a new paragraph as follows:—

‘The risk involved in discontinuing the practice seems small and the Joint Committee was impressed by the case advanced for its discontinuance. On the other hand, the Committee feels that if the practice were discontinued the only remedy which would remain if widespread personation or other corrupt practices were proved to have taken place at an election would be to declare the election void and hold another election. At this second election the persons guilty of the offences would, in a sense, be given a “second chance” of being elected; whereas if the invalid votes were simply struck off on a scrutiny the candidates against whom the offence was directed might well be elected—an effect opposite to that intended by the offenders. On balance, the Committee feels that the deterrent effect of the present practice is a valuable safeguard against widespread personation and other corrupt practices at elections and that it should not be sacrificed to allay a suspicion which is, in fact, groundless. The Committee accordingly recommends no change in this regard.”’

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an Cheist:— “Go gcuirfear an mhír nua isteach ansin”.

(ix) Aontaíodh míreanna 49 go 53 go huile.

4. Rinne an Comhchoiste breithniú.

5. Athlá.

Chuaigh an Comhchoiste ar athló ar 5 p.m. go dtí 4 p.m. Dé Céadaoin, 14 Meitheamh, 1961.