Committee Reports::Joint Committee on Interim, 2nd Interim, 3rd Interim and Final Reports - Electoral Law ::12 July, 1961::Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Deputy Healy (in the Chair), Deputies Booth, Seán Browne, Jones, Kitt, Loughman, Maloney and Norton, Senators Cole, L’Estrange and Ó Maoláin.

The Joint Committee resumed con sideration of the Draft Final Report of the Committee.

“Under rule 31 of the Fifth Schedule to the Electoral Act, 1923, the only persons permitted to be present at the counting of votes are the returning officer, his staff and the agents of the candidates and any other persons sanctioned by the returning officer. Rule 49 of that Schedule provides that a candidate may be present at any place at which his agent may, in pursuance of the Act, attend. There is no statutory limit to the number of agents a candidate may appoint to attend on his behalf at the count, but in some cases the number of agents for each candidate is limited by the returning officer because the accommodation in the place in which the votes are being counted is restricted. The Joint Committee considers that it should be possible to get sufficient accommodation to ensure that a candidate may, personally or through his agents, satisfy himself that a ballot paper which is counted as a preference for a particular candidate is in fact valid and contains such a preference. Where the number of agents for each candidate admitted to a count is limited, this may not be possible. The Committee recommends that, in addition to placing a statutory obligation on the returning officer to provide adequate accommodation for the count, a further provision should be enacted permitting each candidate to attend the count personally and, in addition, to appoint not less than five agents to attend. The Committee also recommends that, in exercising his discretion as to the number of other persons to be admitted to the count, the returning officer should have special regard to his responsibility to conduct the count efficiently and to ensure that the agents of the candidates are also facilitated in carrying out their tasks in relation to the count effectively.”

“In the penultimate sentence to delete the words ‘not less than’ and substitute the words ‘not more than’.”

‘The Joint Committee has already recommended that conviction of a corrupt or illegal practice should not in itself disqualify a person for membership of the Dáil or Seanad. This proposal should be modified accordingly. Subject to this, the Committee recommends it’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

“A person to be eligible for membership of Seanad Éireann must be eligible to become a member of Dáil Éireann.”

Under Article 16, to be eligible for membership of Dáil Éireann, a person must be a citizen who has reached the age of 21 years. The Joint Committee does not feel that it is desirable specifically to repeat these provisions in a statute as proposed. It also thinks that the proposal should be modified in accordance with its recommendation at paragraph 90 that conviction of a corrupt or illegal practice should not disqualify a person for membership of the Dáil or Seanad. Subject to these observations, the Committee recommends this proposal’.”

Question:— “That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘The persons whom it is proposed to disqualify for membership of the Dáil and Seanad are, briefly—

(1) persons under sentence of imprisonment for a term exceeding six months, or penal servitude;

(2) persons lawfully detained in a mental institution, and

(3) bankrupts.

The proposal is to continue the existing disqualifications with modifications which would make them more readily workable. The Joint Committee does not feel that a good case exists for the continuance of these disqualifications. The Committee feels that electors must be regarded as mature enough to elect representatives of the type they want and to take the consequences of their choice should the persons elected become incapable of acting during their period of office by reason of imprisonment, mental instability or bankruptcy. It is noteworthy that this principle applies to the office of President, for which there are no statutory disqualifications. The Committee feels, however, that an exception should be made in the case of a person convicted of treason, as defined in Article 39 of the Constitution, or of an offence under the Official Secrets Acts. Such a person should be disqualified for membership, if he is a member, but he should not be disqualified for standing at the consequential bye-election or any subsequent election’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘On individual disqualifications, the Joint Committee feels that the fact that a person, in addition to suffering the normal penalties of imprisonment and/or a fine, will, if he is a member of the Dáil or Seanad be disqualified for membership if a sentence of penal servitude exceeding six months—or any other period specified—is imposed, make a court hesitate to impose a sentence exceeding the specified period, even if it considers such a sentence justified. Thus the disqualification on account of a sentence of imprisonment may have the effect of mitigating the penalties instead of being an additional penalty as intended’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘The trend in recent legislation has been to do away with the distinction between physical and mental ill-health. A member suffering from a disease which prevents him for a long time from discharging his functions as a public representative is not thereby disqualified. If, however, the disorder is mental he is disqualified. The Joint Committee does not see any logic in this distinction’.”

Question:— “That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

“The abolition of the disqualification on account of bankruptcy would follow from the acceptance of the principle of full electoral responsibility, in accordance with which the Joint Committee recommends the abolition of the other disqualifications’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘A further point which has been raised is that a person who absents himself without good cause for a prolonged period from the proceedings of the Dáil or Seanad should be disqualified. Such a provision is made in the case of local authorities by Article 12 of the Schedule to the Local Government (Application of Enactments) Order, 1898. The Joint Committee feels that such a provision should not be applied in the case of the Houses of the Oireachtas. To an even greater extent than in the case of local authorities a member’s duties are not confined to attendance at formal debates or meetings. Further, the provision could be too easily evaded. Finally, if a member does not perform his duties to the satisfaction of those who voted for him the people have the remedy in their own hands’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘The Joint Committee agrees with the view expressed in the circular letter of 3rd June, 1932, that a civil servant should do nothing to give colour to any suggestion that his official actions are in any way influenced or capable of being influenced by party motives. This is of vital importance for civil servants concerned with the formulation of policy or employed in any clerical or supervisory position and it is undesirable that such persons should be permitted to stand for election’.’

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

‘The same considerations do not apply with such force to persons in other grades in the civil service. In this connection the Joint Committee had before it representations which adverted to the freedom allowed to various grades of civil servants in the United Kingdom to engage in political activities. The Committee also considered section 9 of the Electricity (Supply) (Amendment) Act, 1958, under which an officer or servant of the Electricity Supply Board who becomes a member of either House of the Oireachtas may be seconded from his employment with the Board for the period of his membership. The tendency in recent legislation is to allow a similar freedom to employees of other State bodies. This tendency accords with the principle suggested in the note to the first proposal in Part IV of this Report that the legislature should have first claim on a person’s services. The Committee is in full agreement with this principle. It is of the utmost importance that the legislature should be able to draw for its members from as wide a field as possible and only for the gravest and most compelling reasons of public policy should any individual be prevented from putting himself forward for election. The Committee, having considered the question with great care, is of opinion that such reasons do not exist in the case of persons employed in the manipulative grades in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and corresponding grades in other Departments, and that the existence of the existing prohibition gives rise to indefensible anomalies as between workers in the Electricity Supply Board and other Boards or authorities financed wholly or largely by the State who can stand for election without penalty, while those in, say, the Department of Posts and Telegraphs cannot stand without losing their positions. The Committee, accordingly, recommends that civil servants in manipulative grades in the Department of Posts and Telegraphs and corresponding grades in other Departments should be permitted to stand for election to the Dáil or Seanad on the same conditions as apply in the case of an employee of the Electricity Supply Board’.”

Question:—“That the new paragraph be there inserted”—put, and agreed to.

IIMEACHTAÍ AN CHOMHCHOISTE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

Dé Céadaoin, 12 Iúil, 1961.

Wednesday, 12th July, 1961.