Committee Reports::Report - Proceedings and Minutes of Evidence - Exclusion of Certain Duly Authorised Visitors::02 May, 1934::Proceedings of the Joint Committee



Dé Céadaoin, 2° Bealtaine, 1934.

Wednesday, 2nd May, 1934.

1. The Committee met at 11 a.m.

2. Present: The Cathaoirleach (in the Chair), the Leas-Chathaoirleach, Senators Mrs. Wyse Power, Douglas, Johnson, O’Rourke and Wilson.

3. The Chairman brought forward the portion of his Draft Report upon which agreement had been reached at the last meeting of the Committee. Senator Johnson objected on the ground that the agreement arrived at was only tentative and said that he wished to make a statement as to his position. The Chairman intimated to Senator Johnson that he could not make a statement but could move an amendment or amendments to the draft. Senator Johnson objected to this procedure and withdrew.

4. The Committee decided to reconsider the Chairman’s Draft Report as a whole. Senator Mrs. Wyse Power intimated her general disagreement with the Draft Report and withdrew.

5. The Chairman’s Draft Report was then reconsidered section by section.

(i) Sections 1 and 2 agreed to.

(ii) Section 3.

Amendment proposed (the Leas-Chathaoirleach):

To add a new sub-section at the end of the section as follows:—

“(3) It is to be noted that the Courts have held that the wearing of a blue uniform shirt is legal.”

Question put and agreed to.

(iii) Sections 4 to 14 agreed to.

(iv) Sections 15 to 18 agreed to.

(v) Section 19.

Amendment proposed (Senator Douglas):

To delete paragraphs (a) to (e), inclusive, of sub-section (3) and to substitute therefor the following two new subsections:—

“(4) The statement of the Minister, eight times repeated, that all the Superintendent wished to know was whether the Minister’s original order held good does not agree with the message given by the Superintendent to the Chief of Staff and could only be explained if the message was not correctly conveyed to the Minister.

(5) The action of the Minister in immediately issuing an order to the military guard would clearly suggest that he received the message correctly, and this is further con-confirmed by the statement of the Minister in reply to questions. He stated: ‘It is quite clear Colonel Brennan, having received conflicting instructions from the Ceann Comhairle and the Cathaoirleach, sought to advise me that two Blue Shirts were going to come in nothwithstanding the fact that I was against their being admitted’ (Q. 231).

If the Minister understood only that Colonel Brennan wished to know if his previous instructions held good a simple ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ would have been sufficient.”

Question put and negatived.

Section 19 agreed to.

(vi) Section 20.

Amendment proposed (Senator Douglas):

To delete the section and to substitute therefor the following new section:—

“20. The Committee have reluctantly reached the conclusion that the Minister was fully informed of the facts; that he was not frank with the Seanad or the Committee; that he was aware that the Superintendent felt bound to obey the order of the Cathaoirleach and that his action was taken with the knowledge that he was causing the Cathaoirleach’s order to be frustrated.”

Question put and negatived.

Section 20 agreed to.

(vii) Section 21.

Amendment proposed (the Leas-Chathaoirleach):

To delete the section.

Question put and agreed to.

(viii) Sections 22 to 28, inclusive, agreed to.

(ix) Section 29.

Amendment proposed (Senator Douglas):

To delete paragraph 5 and to substitute the following new paragraph therefor:—

“5. That the Clerk of the Dáil interfered without authority and took steps calculated to prevent the Superintendent of the Oireachtas from carrying out the orders given to him by the Cathaoirleach.”

Question put and agreed to.

(x) Section 30 and 31 agreed to.

6. Motion made (Senator Douglas):

“That the Chairman be requested to draft a new section of the Report to deal with the action of Senator Miss Browne in attempting to introduce the visitors in blue uniform shirts to the Seanad.”

Question put and agreed to.

7. The Committee adjourned at 12.40 p.m. until 11 a.m. on Wednesday, 9th May.