Committee Reports > List of Committees > Seanad > 1926 > Select Committee on Statistics Bill,1925 > Report - Statistics Bill, 1925

SEANAD EIREANN.

Imeachta Rogha-Choiste chun Bille Staitistiochta, 1925 do Breithniú.

Proceedings of Select Committee to consider the Statistics Bill, 1925.

Dé hAoine, 19° Feabhra, 1926.

(Friday, 19th February, 1926.)

1. Senator Douglas took the Chair at 3 p.m.

2. Senators Present.

The following Senators attended the sitting:—

John Bagwell, Samuel L. Brown, K.C., Sir Thomas Grattan Esmonde, Rt. Hon. Andrew Jameson and Sir Bryan Mahon.

The President was also in attendance.

3. Statistics Bill, 1925.

(i) Section 1.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Line 15. To delete the words “and includes the Gárda Síochána.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Line 21. To delete the words “and every other person.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 1 agreed to.

(ii) Section 2.

Amendment proposed (Senator Bagwell):

Line 28. After the word “Minister” to insert the words “on submitting a scheme and regulations as hereinafter provided and obtaining the approval of the Oireachtas to the same.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 2 agreed to.

(iii) Section 3 agreed to.

(iv) Section 4.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (4). To add at the end of the sub-section the words “Provided that such Council shall meet at least once in each year.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 4 agreed to.

(v) Sections 5 and 6 agreed to.

(vi) Section 7.

Amendment proposed (Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde):

Sub-section (2). To add after the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:—

“(3) Nothing in this Act shall be construed so as in any way to compel any bank or corporation carrying on the business of banking or any official thereof to complete any schedule, form or other document or to give any written or verbal information as to any individual account or to furnish the names or addresses of any customer or to furnish any particulars which might enable any person to identify such information or particulars as relating to any individual person, business or concern without the consent in writing of that person or of the proprietor of that business or concern.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Subsection 3. To add after the sub-section two new sub-sections as follows:—

“(4) No person shall be convicted of an offence under sub-section (1) of this section unless and until he has been required in writing by registered post to fill up or otherwise complete a schedule, form or other document according to the instructions contained therein or otherwise communicated to him under this Act and to return or otherwise dispose of such document in accordance with such instructions and has not within the time therein limited complied with such requisition in writing.

(5) No person shall be convicted of an offence under sub-section (2) of this section unless and until he has been required in writing by registered post to give or furnish to such officer of statistics the written or verbal information or to answer the question asked of him by such officer and has not within the time limited in such requisition in writing complied with such requisition in writing.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 7 agreed to.

(vii) Section 8.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (1), line 33. After the word “statistics” to insert the words “or by a member of the Gárda Síochána in uniform.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (1), line 35. After the word “officer” to insert the words “or member of the Gárda Síochána”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (1), line 36. To delete the word “prepaid” and to substitute therefor the word “registered.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (2), line 48. After the word “statistics” to insert the words “or by a member of the Gárda Síochána in uniform.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (2), line 50. After the word “officer” to insert the words “or by a member of the Gárda Síochána

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Section 8, sub-section (2), line 50. To delete the word “prepaid” and to substitute therefor the word “registered.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 8 agreed to.

(viii) Section 9 agreed to.

(ix) Section 10.

Amendment proposed (Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde):

To delete the section.

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde):

Sub-section (1). To add after the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:—

“(2) Nothing in this section shall authorise an officer of statistics to have access to, inspect or take copies of any individual Bank Account or to require any Bank or Bank Officer to furnish to such officer of statistics a copy of such account or any part thereof.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 10 agreed to.

(x) New Section.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

After section 10 to insert a new section as follows:—

“11.—(1) Notwithstanding the provisions of section 85 of the Courts of Justice Act, 1924, an appeal shall lie against an order of a Justice of the District Court for the payment of any penal sum under section 7 or section 10 of this Act or for any term of imprisonment under section 7 of this Act to the Judge of the Circuit Court within whose Circuit the District or any part of the District of the Justice lies.

(2) The Justice of the District Court or the Judge of the Circuit Court shall, if requested by any party to any proceeding under this Act (unless he considers the request frivolous), and may, without request, refer any question of law arising in a proceeding under this Act to the Supreme Court for determination, and the determination of the Supreme Court thereon shall be final and conclusive.”

Question put, and agreed to.

(xi) Section 11.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (5), line 55. After the word “statistics” to insert the words “or member of the Gárda Síochána in uniform.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (6). To delete the sub-section.

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (6), line 60. To delete the words “purports to act” and to substitute therefor the words “produces a certificate in writing signed by a superintendent of the Gárda Síochána that he is acting.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

After sub-section (6) to add a new sub-section as follows:—

“(7) Every appointment and every certificate signed by a superintendent of the Gárda Síochána under this section shall contain a reference to the prohibition on the disclosure of information imposed by section 14 of this Act.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Section 11, as amended, agreed to.

(xii) Section 12, agreed to.

(xiii) Section 13.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (1), line 3. To delete the words “Neither any “and to substitute therefor the word “No.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (1), line 5. To delete the words “nor any” and to substitute therefor the words “and no.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (1), line 6. After the word “document” to insert the words “and no verbal information given and no answer to any question put for the purposes of this Act.”

Senator Jameson asked leave to amend his amendment to read as follows:—

Sub-section (1), line 6. After the word “document” to insert the words “and no verbal information or answer given relating to any individual person, business or concern.”

Leave given.

Amendment, as amended, put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (2), line 11. To delete the words “So far as is reasonably practicable.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Section 13, as amended, agreed to.

(xiv) Section 14.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (1). To add at the end of the sub-section the words “or any verbal information or answer given relating to any individual person, business or concern.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

Sub-section (1). To add after the sub-section a new sub-section as follows:—

“(2) Every officer of statistics shall be required to take an oath in the prescribed form that he shall not publish or declare to any person other than a Minister or another officer of statistics concerned with the matter in the course of his duties as such officer the contents or any part of the contents of any individual schedule, form or other document filled in or otherwise completed by any person in pursuance of a requisition made under this Act or any information furnished or answer to any question asked under this Act.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Jameson):

Sub-section (2), line 50. After the word “aforesaid” to insert the words “or any verbal information or answer given relating to any individual person, business or concern.”

Question put, and agreed to.

Section 14, as amended, agreed to.

(xv) Sections 15 and 16 agreed to.

(xvi) New section.

Amendment proposed (Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde):

After section 16 to insert a new section as follows:—

“17.—Any order made under sub-section (1) of section 16 of this Act shall be laid on the Table of both Houses of the Oireachtas and may be annulled by resolution of either House within twenty-one days of its being so laid.”

Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde asked leave to amend his amendment to read as follows:—

After section 16 to insert a new section as follows:—

“17.—Any order made under sub-section (1) of section 16 of this Act shall be laid as soon as may be on the Table of both Houses of the Oireachtas.”

Leave given.

Question, as amended, put, and agreed to.

(xvii) Section 17 agreed to.

(xviii) New section.

Amendment proposed (Senator Brown):

After section 17 to insert a new section as follows:—

“18.—Nothing in this Act shall compel any person to give or furnish any written or verbal information or to answer any question asked of him in relation to a matter as to which his knowledge was acquired in circumstances which would entitle him to decline to give such information or answer such question in a civil proceeding in a Court of Law on the ground of privilege.”

Amendment withdrawn.

Amendment proposed (Senator Sir Thomas Esmonde):

After Section 17 to insert a new section as follows:—

“18.—Nothing in this Act shall be construed to require any person to give information in relation to a matter as to which his knowledge was acquired in circumstances that would entitle him to decline to give such information in a civil proceeding in a Court of Law on the ground of privilege or to require any bank or corporation carrying on the business of banking or any official thereof to furnish any particulars which would enable any person to identify such particulars as relating to any individual person, business or concern without the consent in writing of that person or of the proprietor of that business or concern.”

Question put, and agreed to.

(xix) Sections 18 to 20, inclusive, agreed to.

(xx) Title agreed to.

Bill to be reported.

4. The Committee rose at 4.20 p.m.

Cathaoirleach an Coiste.