Committee Reports::Annual Report of the Joint Committee on Education and Science, 2002-03::26 February, 2004::Appendix


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APPENDIX 5 Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 14^th November, 2002

1.The Joint Committee met in public session in Committee Room R3, Leinster House 2000 at 11.30 a.m.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Tony Killeen, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

In Public Session

3.Election of Chairman.

On the proposal of Deputy Barry Andrews, Deputy Tony Killeen was unanimously elected as Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Science and took the Chair.

4.Election of Vice-Chairman.

On the proposal of Deputy Máire Hoctor, Deputy Jan O’ Sullivan was unanimously elected as Vice-Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Science.

Deputy Killeen expressed his thanks to the Committee for electing him Chairman and congratulated Deputy O’Sullivan on her election as Vice-Chair. He said he looked forward to working with all members in a productive and effective manner. The Chairman also paid tribute to the former Chairman and members of the committee on Education and Science for the constructive work done by them.

The Chairman then briefly outlined the role of the Committee and the way it is required to discharge its functions. In the context of the requirement of the committee to lay a Work Programme before the Houses, the Committee decided that this would be the topic of discussion at the next meeting of the committee on Thursday, 21^st November.

5.Frequency of meetings.

The Joint Committee agreed to meet on a fortnightly basis. The Chairman will seek an 11.30 time slot on Thursday morning from the Working Group of Committee Chairpersons when the Group hold its first meeting.

6.Any Other Business.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 11.40 a.m. until Thursday, 21 November at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

21^st November, 2002

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 21^st November, 2002

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.35am in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members attended:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Sean Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy John Curran

It was agreed to go into private session for the duration of the meeting.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

The meeting was adjourned 13.39p.m sine die.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

12^th December 2002

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 12^th December, 2002

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.34 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

The meeting was adjourned at 11.47am. The next meeting was provisionally arranged for the 16^th January, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

16^th January 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 16^th January, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.32 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan, Peter Power* and David Stanton,

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, Paddy Burke (in substitution for Ulick Burke for part of the meeting)

*Deputy Power substituted for Deputy John Curran.

In Public Session

3Minutes of meetings

The minutes of the 12^th December and the revised minutes of the 21^st November, 2002 were agreed.

4Any Other Business

It was agreed that a working group, consisting of the chairman, vice-chairman and two convenors would meet informally on a trial basis to agree the business that would be dealt with by the Committee for the next month.

5Meeting with Mr. Liam Kilroy, Mr. Gabriel Harrison and Ms Lee MacCurtain from the Department of Education and Science, to discuss Special Needs Education and the report of the Task Force on Autism

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Liam Kilroy, Principal Officer in the Special Education Section of the Department of Education and his colleagues, Mr. Gabriel Harrison, Assistant Chief Inspector for Special Education Services and Ms Lee MacCurtain, Director of NEPS, the National Educational Psychological Service, to the meeting of the Committee.

He drew attention to the fact that while members of the Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

He also reminded members to exercise considerable care in referring to persons not present.

Following a presentation by Mr. Kilroy, there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues addressed were;

Provision for pre-school children including early diagnosis and assessment and provision for over eighteen year old adults with ASD,

Provision of specialised needs of students with special needs at 3^rd level,

Provision of IEP (Individual Education Plans),

The ABA model,

The Middletown Centre in Co. Armagh,

Training provided to teachers and special needs assistants to work with children with ASD, and the provision of additional professional therapy places,

Costs with regard to the provision of education of persons with Autism,

Provision of respite support for parents,

Monitoring of implementation of recommendations of the task force report,

Legislation envisaged, including the Disabilities Bill and the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill,

Coordination between the Departments of Education and Health and clarification of their respective roles.

Mr. Kilroy agreed that the Committee would be given copies of the non-confidential submissions received by the Minister as part of the consultation process presently being undertaken in respect of the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill. He also said that he had a number of information notes for the Committee, including a note on developments in the training for teachers concerning autism, a note on the Middletown Centre in Co. Armagh, and a note on developments to date with respect to the provision of an additional 175 professional training places.

Following the discussion, the Chairman thanked Mr. Kilroy, Mr. Harrison and Ms MacCurtain for attending the meeting of the committee and for contributing to what had been a very interesting discussion.

Following a query, the Chairman indicated that the Department of Health had not been invited to attend the meeting, as the Committee could only deal with matters that were the responsibility of the Department of Education. It was agreed that the Chairman would write to the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health, to suggest that that Committee would follow up the work it had carried out in the previous Dáil.

It was agreed that the Committee would put aside another meeting to discuss this topic and that there would be discussions in advance of the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill.

6Any Other Business

The Chairman reminded members that there were two further meetings of the Committee in January, 2003 — on the 23 January, a meeting with STEPS (Science, Technology and Engineering Programme for Schools) which is a programme run by the Institute of Engineers in Ireland and on the 30 January, 2003, a meeting with officials of the Department of Education to discuss investment in educational infrastructure through the Schools Modernisation Fund.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until Thursday 23rd January, 2003 at 11:30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

23rd January, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 23^rd January, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.30 a.m. in Committee Room 4 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, John Curran, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Ned O’Keeffe*, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton,

Senators Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

*Deputy O’Keeffe substituted for Deputy Mulcahy for part of the meeting.

Also in attendance was Senator Kieran Phelan

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Olwyn Enright

In Public Session

3Minutes of meetings

The minutes of the 16^th January 2003 were agreed.

4Meeting with representatives from the Institute of Engineers in Ireland who run the STEPS Programme (Science, Technology and Engineering Programme for Schools) to discuss the implications of the decline in participation in the study of the physical sciences at second and third level in Ireland.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Peter Langford, Chartered Engineer from Arup and his colleagues Mr. Liam Connellan, Chartered Engineer from Vivendi, Dr. Jane Grimson, Chartered Engineer from TCD, Mr. Paddy Purcell, Chartered Engineer from IEI and Ms. Ita McGuigan, Project Manager from IEI STEPS to the meeting of the Committee.

He drew attention to the fact that while members of the Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

He reminded Members of the long standing Parliamentary Practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Following a presentation by Mr. Peter Langford and Mr. Paddy Purcell there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues addressed were;

The attention given to the teaching of science in primary level schools, its importance in fostering the interest of children in science

Encouraging Science as a career choice subject after junior certificate exams and the desirability of extending the STEPS programme to Junior Certificate students

The provision of Science Labs and Science Lab Technicians in secondary schools

Addressing the perception that Maths and Physical Sciences are difficult subjects to excel at in Leaving Certificate exams,

The importance of encouraging graduates with primary degrees in chemistry, physics, maths and engineering graduates to enter the teaching profession to ensure the quality of teaching of these subjects, possible use of incentives for teachers having science subjects as a primary degree subject

Need to complete the review of the Maths syllabus for the Leaving Certificate to bring it into line with the new syllabus at Junior Certificate level

The negative impact of part-time working by second level students on the study in particular of Maths and physics

Desirability of making students aware of the flexibility of progression in qualifications in engineering at third level, from certificate to diploma and degree courses

Encouraging a higher percentage participation by women in the field of engineering

The importance of Engineering in the development of and to sustain the Economy across the major sectors of employment, the importance of continually moving our industry up the value added chain

Current level of funding from by Department of Education and Science and the private industry for the STEPS programme

It was agreed that the Chairman would write to the Minister regarding the Department’s financial input into the STEPS programme. It was agreed that he would also write to the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business in relation to the funding of the STEPS programme and the possible role of the Research and Development budget of the Department of Enterprise and Trade and Employment in this regard.

5.Any Other Business

The Chairman reminded members that the next meeting of the Committee would be to discuss investment in educational infrastructure through the Schools Modernisation Fund.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until Thursday 30^th January, 2003 at 11:30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

30th January, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 30^th January, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.41 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan

In Public Session

3Minutes of meetings

The minutes of the 23 January 2003 were agreed.

4SOS

The meeting suspended at 12:37 a.m. and resumed at 2:02 p.m.

In Private Session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

6.Meeting with Mr. Martin Hanevy Assistant Secretary at the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues Mr. Frank Wise, Mr. .John Rigney, Ms. Anne Killian, Mr. Larry McEvoy and Mr. Camillus Hogan to discuss investment in educational infrastructure through the schools modernisation fund

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Martin Hanevy - Assistant Secretary General at the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues from the Planning and Building Unit, Mr. Frank Wise - Principal Officer, Mr. John Rigney - Principal Officer, Ms Anne Killlian - Principal Officer, Mr. Camillus Hogan — Assistant Principal Officer and Mr. Larry McEvoy - Quantity Surveyor to the meeting of the Committee.

He drew attention to the fact that while members of the Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

He also reminded members to exercise considerable care in referring to persons not present.

Following a presentation by Mr. Hanevy, there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues addressed were;

The school modernisation fund,

The cost of bringing all schools up to the most modern standards, both at primary and secondary level,

Additional costs associated with listed buildings,

The development of schools campuses, catering for more than one school,

Public private partnerships in the building and maintenance of schools,

Multi-use of school buildings for uses outside of school hours,

2003 primary and post-primary school building programme report,

Standard school design.

It was agreed that the Committee was in favour of the school building fund being put on a multi-annual basis as soon as possible and that the Committee would consider this issue further.

Following the discussion, the Chairman thanked Mr. Hanevy, Mr. Wise, Mr. Rigney, Ms Killlian, Mr McEvoy and Mr Hogan for attending the meeting of the committee and for contributing to what had been a very interesting discussion.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 3:37 p.m. until Thursday 6 February 2003 at 11:30a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

6 February, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 6^th February, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.38 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Seán Crowe.

In the unavoidable absence of the Chairman, the Vice-Chair, Deputy Jan O’ Sullivan, took the Chair from 12.33 p.m. to 13.14 p.m.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

4.Meeting with Mr. Tom Boland Director of Strategic Policy at the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues Mr. Paul Kennedy Principal Officer and Ms. Maria Grogan Assistant Principal to discuss

Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 (Section 17) Regulations 2002

Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 (Section 33) Regulations 2002

Residential Institutions Redress Act 2002 (Miscellaneous Provisions) Regulations 2002

5.The Chairman welcomed Mr. Tom Boland — Director of Strategic Policy at the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues from the Residential Institutions Redress Unit Mr. Paul Kennedy Principal Officer and Ms. Maria Grogan Assistant Principal to the meeting of the Committee.

He drew attention to the fact that while members of the Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

He also reminded members to exercise considerable care in referring to persons not present. Members were also advised of the restrictions imposed by the Committee’s Orders of Reference and Standing Orders of both Houses in the light of the Public Accounts Committee’s intentions — communicated in a letter dated 30 January - to examine the contingent liability to the State which may result from the work of the residential institutions redress board.

Mr. Boland made a presentation to the Committee outlining the three broad categories covered by the regulations made by Ministerial Order on 19 December and laid before the Houses. These regulations cover —

• Amounts of awards to be made by the Residential Institutions Redress Board;

• Payment of legal and medical costs, and

• Miscellaneous technical issues relating mainly to the giving of evidence to the Board.

A question and answer session followed.

Among the issues raised were; -

Whether there had been a policy change in the Department around December 2001 regarding the obligations of the religious congregations and the State and if so, had it been approved by the Attorney General’s office and the Department of Finance

How the numbers who might access the redress board were assessed

Why requests for information on the list of properties to be transferred were refused

The potential for proceedings before the board being of an adversarial nature

If a review of the Residential Institutions Redress Act is being considered by the Department

How the process of seeking redress might be expedited for applicants who are ill

The possibility that the indemnity agreement is in conflict with Article 44.2 of the Constitution and whether religious orders had bought insurance to cover claims for compensation for abuse suffered in institutions

The assistance available to applicants to the board especially those who may have learning difficulties

Mechanisms for informing potential applicants particularly those who were in institutions not currently scheduled in the Act

Weightings to be referred to when making an award; the provision for an additional award of up to 20% of the basic award in circumstances in which a court would award for aggravated damages; provision for the payment of past and future medical expenses and provision for the payment of legal costs and other expenses associated with an application to the Board; processes for informing people and institutions against whom allegations are made

Possible conflict between the Act and the Succession Act

Mechanisms in the Residential Institutions Redress Act providing for the power to remove difficulties

Following the discussion, the Chairman thanked Mr. Boland, Mr. Kennedy and Ms. Grogan for attending the meeting of the committee and for contributing to what had been a very interesting discussion.

He requested that all Regulations and Statutory Instruments relating to the Residential Institutions Redress Act, 2002 be forwarded to the Committee for consideration. He stated that the Committee would keep the issue under review with a view to revisiting it as the need arose.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1.48 p.m. until Thursday 13 February 2003 at 11:30a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

13 February, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 13^th February, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

6.Meeting with Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D. Minister for Education and Science to consider the following draft order; The State Examinations Commission (Establishment)Order 2003.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D. Minister for Education and Science and his officials to the meeting of the Committee to assist the Committee in its consideration of the following draft order; The State Examinations Commission (Establishment) Order 2003.

The Chairman reminded the Members of the long standing Parliamentary Practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable

Following a presentation by Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues raised were; -

Adequate levels of staffing for the Commission

Spreading of examinations/assessment arrangements throughout the year.

Appointment of members of the commission advertised open competition and Members not spending more than two terms on the Commission

Accountability of the Commission and access to information by Members

The Minister indicated, in relation to accountability and access to information, that he would talk to the State Examinations Commission about the inclusion of a specific period of time within which Members of the Oireachtas would get replies to their specific queries in the Commissions Customer Plan. . He indicated that he would report back to the Committee his correspondence with the Commission in this regard and that the matter could be considered again within twelve months.

The Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for their attendamce at the meeting.

The Chairman indicated that the Clerk would, in accordance with Dáil Standing Order 85, send the following message to the Dáil:

The Joint Committee on Education and Science has completed its consideration of the proposal that Dáil Éireann approve the following draft Order :

State Examinations Commission (Establishment) Order 2003.

The Chairman indicated that the Clerk would, in accordance with Seanad Standing Order 67, send the following message to the Seanad :

The Joint Committee on Education and Science has completed its consideration of the proposal that Seanad Éireann approve the following draft Order :

State Examinations Commission (Establishment) Order 2003.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1.30 p.m. until Thursday 27 February 2003 at 11:30a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

27 February, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 27^th February, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

The Committee agreed to go into private session to deal with minutes and some private business, before continuing in public session.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

7.Meeting with representatives of the Department of Education and of the HEA, to discuss Access programmes, in particular developments since the Report of the Action group on access to Third Level Education published in May 2001 and also programmes for talented youth.

The Chairman welcomed Mr Paddy McDonagh Assistant Secretary at the Department of Education and his colleagues, Mr John Maloney, Assistant Principal and Mr Muiris O’Connor, Statistican and Dr. Don Thornhill, Chairman of the Higher Education Authority and his colleagues Ms Mary Kerr, Deputy Secretary and Mr. Fergal Costello, Head of Policy and Planning to the meeting to discuss Access programmes, in particular developments since the Report of the Action group on access to Third Level Education published in May, 2001 and also programmes for talented youth.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of this Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

Following a presentation by Mr. McDonagh and Dr Thornhill, there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues raised were; -

•The distribution and monitoring of the distribution of access funds

•The future expansion of access programmes

•Survival rates among disadvantaged groups

•Income levels with regard to grants

•Impact on access levels of free fee scheme

•Role of Area Based partnership Boards

The Chairman requested and Mr McDonagh and Dr. Thornhill agreed, that written responses would be supplied with regard to any question raised that Mr McDonagh and Dr Thornhill had not been able to answer, due to insufficient time.

The Chairman thanked Mr. McDonagh, Dr. Thornhill, Mr.Maloney, Mr. O’Connor, Ms Kerr, and Mr. Costello for their attendance at the meeting.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1:00 p.m. until Tuesday 11 March, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

11 March, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday, 11^th March, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.35 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Geraldine Feeney*, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

*Senator Feeney substituted for Senator Liam Fitzgerald.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Senator Ulick Burke

In the unavoidable absence of the Chairman, the Vice-Chair, Deputy Jan O’ Sullivan, took the Chair from 12.53 p.m. to 13.21 p.m.

3.Before contributing to the debate, Deputy Michael Mulcahy declared that he was a former Vice-President of the National Youth Council of Ireland.

The Committee agreed to go into private session to deal with minutes and some private business, before continuing in public session.

In Private Session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

7.Meeting with representatives of the National Youth Work Advisory Committee regarding provisions of the Youth Work Act 2001

The Chairman welcomed Mr. P.J. Breen, Principal Officer of the Youth Affairs Section and his colleagues, Ms Doreen Burke Higher Executive Officer, Mr. Pat Forde, Chairperson of the National Youth Work Advisory Committee, Mr. Clifford Kelly, Councilor of the Standing Council Irish Vocational Education Association, Mr. Pat Ryan CEO of the County Galway VEC/IVEA, Ms. Mary Cunningham Director of the National Youth Council of Ireland, and Ms. Olive Good Chair of Youth Work Services Standing Conference to the meeting to discuss provisions of the Youth Work Act 2001.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of this Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

On conclusion of presentations by Mr. P.J. Breen, Mr. Pat Forde, Mr. Pat Ryan and Ms. Mary Cunningham, there followed a question and answer session.

Among the issues raised were; -

•Funding, resources and timeframe for implementation of provisions of the Act

•The National Youth Work Development Plan

•Development of integrated local youth work plans by VEC’s

•Appointment of Assessor of Youth Work

•Core funding for youth organisations

•Capital investment in youth sector

•Garda clearance for voluntary organisations

•Code of Good Practice and training in the area of child protection for service providers

•Mechanisms to support and develop volunteerism

•Increased pressure on youth services due to the growing number of refugees and asylum seekers

•Career structure for youth workers

•North-South Validation Body

•EU White Paper on Youth

The Chairman thanked Mr. P.J. Breen, Ms. Doreen Burke, Mr. Pat Forde, Mr. Clifford Kelly, Mr. Pat Ryan, Ms. Mary Cunningham and Ms. Olive Good for their attendance at the meeting.

The Chairman informed the delegation that the Committee intended to keep the matter under review and that an update on any future developments in the area would be welcome. The Committee will also discuss inviting Minister Sile De Valera to a future meeting on the issue.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1:21 p.m. until Thursday 27 March, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

27 March, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday, 27^th March, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.41 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Olwyn Enright, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Seán Crowe

3.Sos

Due to a vote in the Dáil, the meeting was suspended from 12:28p.m. to 1:18p.m.

In Private Session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

7.Meeting with representatives of the Department of Education and Science concerning music education in Ireland and the Dublin Institute of Technology and the Cork Institute of Technology concerning music education in Ireland, in particular their overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate policy.

Before welcoming the representatives, the Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of this Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Donal O’Rourke, Chairman of Governing Body, Cork Institute of Technology and his colleagues Mr. Patrick Kelleher, Director, Mr. Michael Delaney, Head of Development, and Mr. Geoffrey Spratt, Director of the Cork School of Music and Mr. Jerome Leonard, Senior Inspector from the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues Ms. Ruth Carmody, Principal Officer, Mr. David Gordon, Principal Officer, Ms Teresa O’Connor, Assistant Principal and Mr. Brendan Kinsella, Assistant Principal to the meeting.

On conclusion of presentations by Mr. O’Rourke and Mr. Leonard, there followed a question and answer session.

It was agreed by Mr. Gordon that the Committee would be circulated with a copy of guidelines from the Department of Finance concerning the General Government Balance.

The Chairman thanked the representatives of the Cork Institute of Technology for their attendance and welcomed Dr. Brendan Goldsmith, President of the Dublin Institute of Technology and his colleagues Dr. Ellen Hazelkorn, Director of the Faculty of Applied Arts and Ms. Melda Slattery, Public Affairs Office to the meeting

On conclusion of presentation by Dr. Goldsmith, there followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the representatives of the Dublin Institute of Technology and of the Department of Education for their attendance.

It was agreed that the matter of provision in relation to the Dublin Institute of Technology would be raised with the Minister for Education and Science at the Select Committee meeting at which the Estimates are discussed.

It was agreed that a letter would be sent to the Minister for Education, in advance of the Select Committee meeting to discuss the Estimates, indicating that the committee strongly recommends that the Government gives the immediate go-ahead for the new School of Music in Cork in view of the critical situation the school finds itself in and the importance of the development to the City of Culture activities in 2005.

It was agreed that a letter would be sent to the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service suggesting that that committee would consider the possible role of the impact of the Cork School of Music PPP on the GGD as a possible cause of the delay in the Building of the new facilities for the Cork School of Music.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1:21 p.m. until Thursday 10^th April 2003

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

24 April 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 10^th April, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.30 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Seán Crowe

Also in attendance was Senator Joe O’Toole

In the absence of the Chairman, the Vice-Chair, Deputy Jan O’ Sullivan, took the Chair from 12.42 p.m. to 13.11 p.m.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

7.Meeting with representatives of the Union of Students in Ireland and the Department of Education and Science regarding third level funding.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Colm Jordan, President of the U.S.I. and his colleagues Mr. Hugh Doogan, General Manager of the U.S.I. and Mr. Will Priesly, President of T.C.D. Students Union, to the meeting.

On conclusion of a presentation by Mr. Jordan, the Chairman welcomed Mr. Pat Dowling, Principal Officer from the Department of Education and Science and his colleagues Mr. Kevin McCarthy, Principal Officer, Mr. John Moloney, Assistant Principal and Mr. Muiris O’ Connor, Statistician and Mr. Dowling,

On conclusion of a presentation by Mr. Dowling, there followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the representatives of the U.S.I. and of the Department of Education and Science for their attendance.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 2:20 p.m. until Thursday 10^th April 2003

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

24 April, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 24^th April, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.27 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Jimmy Devins^*, John Mc Guinness^*, M.J. Nolan^* and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Paddy Burke^**, Timmy Dooley^*** and Joanna Tuffy

^* Deputies Jimmy Devins, John Mc Guinness and M.J. Nolan substituted for Deputies John Curran, Thomas Mc Ellistrim and Michael Mulcahy respectively.

^** Senator Paddy Burke substituted for Senator Ulick Burke (for part of the meeting).

^*** Senator Timmy Dooley substituted for Senator John Minihan.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Olwyn Enright and Jan O’Sullivan and from Senator John Minihan.

3.SOS

The meeting was suspended from 11.28 to 11:30 a.m.

In Private Session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

6.Meeting with representatives of Co-operation Ireland.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Tony Kennedy, Chief Executive of Co-operation Ireland and his colleague Ms. Marianne McGill, Manager, Civic Link Department, to the meeting.

On conclusion of a presentation by Mr. Kennedy and Ms. McGill, there followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the representatives of Co-operation Ireland for their attendance.

It was agreed that the Committee would consider a visit to look at a project in the programme, which could include making contact with the Education Committee of the Northern Ireland Assembly, at an appropriate time in the future.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until Thursday, 1^st May, 2003 at 11.00 a.m. when it would be meeting representatives of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment and the Curriculum Development Unit to discuss

a) ongoing progress in curriculum development, including transition year and

b) educational aspects of COM (2003) 27 final — the Green paper called Entrepreneurship in Europe.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

1 May, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 1^st May, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.00 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Séan Crowe, John Curran, Jimmy Devins^**, John Ellis^*, Olwyn Enright, Peter Kelly^**, Michael Mulcahy, and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

^*Deputy John Ellis substituted for Deputy Thomas McEllistrim.

^**Deputies Jimmy Devins and Peter Kelly substituted for Deputies Michael Mulcahy and Barry Andrews respectively (for part of the meeting).

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

4.Meeting with representatives of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment and the Curriculum Development Unit to discuss ongoing progress in curriculum development, including transition year and the educational aspects of COM (2003) 27 final — the Green paper entitled Entrepreneurship in Europe - and the role of education at all levels in fostering entrepreneurship.

The Chairman welcomed Ms. Anne Looney - Chief Executive of the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment and her colleague Mr. John Hammond - Deputy Chief Executive, to the meeting.

The Chairman also welcomed Mr. Aidan Clifford - Acting Director of the Curriculum Development Unit and his colleagues Mr. Stephen Mc Carthy — Programme Manager for the Education for Reconciliation Project, Ms. Aideen Cassidy — National Co-Ordinator Junior Certificate Programme and Ms. Sheila O Driscoll — Director Curriculum Development Centre, Shannon.

Representatives of each delegation made a presentation to the committee. Presentations were followed by a question and answer session with members.

Ms. Margaret Kelly Principal Officer, Department of Education and Science also attended and contributed to the proceedings.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the witnesses for their attendance and presentations which he said had been very interesting and informative.

He also informed the delegations that it was the Committee’s intention to invite them back to a future meeting to discuss the teaching of Irish and other European languages

Regarding the Green Paper, it was agreed that the working group would consider how best to respond before reporting to the sub-Committee on EU scrutiny.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1.36 p.m. until Thursday, 8^thMay, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

15 May, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 8^th May, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.30 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Dan Boyle^*, Séan Crowe, Máire Hoctor, Billy Kelleher^*, Thomas McEllistrim, Noel O’Flynn^*, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, John Dardis^**, Ann Ormonde^**and Brendan Ryan^**.

^*Deputies Billy Kelleher, Dan Boyle and Noel O’Flynn substituted for Deputies John Curran, Paul Gogarty and Michael Mulcahy respectively.

^**Senators Ann Ormonde, John Dardis and Brendan Ryan substituted for Senators Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy respectively

Also in attendance were Deputies John Dennehy and Dan Wallace.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Paul Gogarty and Senator John Minihan.

3.Before contributing to the discussion, Senator Brendan Ryan declared that he was a member of the staff of the Cork Institute of Technology.

In Public Session

4.Meeting with Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D. Minister for Education and Science to discuss the Cork School of Music Project.

The meeting was convened to discuss with the Minister concerns in relation to the delay in the project for the new School of Music building in Cork raised by Members at a meeting of the Joint Committee on the 27^th March 2003.

The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Education and Science, Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D. and his officials to the meeting.

The Minister addressed the committee setting out the current position vis-à-vis the General Government Balance. He informed the Committee that discussions between the Departments of Education and Finance and at European level were ongoing. He acknowledged the importance of the project and the concerns of Members. He informed the Committee that final approval for the Cork School of Music would be a matter for the Government.

A question and answer session followed.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for their attendance.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 12.00 noon until Thursday, 15^th May, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

15^th May, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 15^th May, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald.

Also in attendance were Deputies Jimmy Devins and Dan Neville (Convenors on the Joint Committee on Health and Children).

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Seán Crowe.

In Private Session]

3.Items discussed in private session

4.Items discussed in private session

5.Items discussed in private session

6.Items discussed in private session

7.Items discussed in private session

8.Items discussed in private session

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 12.00 noon until Thursday, 22^nd May, 2003 at 9.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

19th June, 2003

Joint Meeting of Joint Committee on Education and Science And Joint Committee on Health and Children

Proceedings of the Joint Meeting

Thursday, 22^nd May, 2003

1.The Joint Committees met at 9:32a.m.in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Beverly Cooper-Flynn, Séan Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy , Jan O’Sullivan, David Stanton

Senators Liam Fitzgerald

Joint Committee on Health and Children

Deputies Batt O’Keeffe(in the chair for part of the meeting), Jerry Cowley, Beverly Cooper-Flynn, Jimmy Devins, Dermot Fitzpatrick, John Gormley, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, John Maloney, Dan Neville, Batt O’Keeffe, Fiona O’Malley, John Gormley, Liz McManus, Olivia Mitchell, John Maloney and Dan Neville

Senators Frank Feighan, Camillus Glynn, Mary Henry

Also in attendance were Deputies Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin and Senator Shane Ross.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Senator John Minihan and Senator Geraldine Feeney.

3.Sos

The Committee suspended from 10:29a.m. to 11:10a.m. and from 11:13 a.m. to 11:24 a.m.

In Public Session

4.Meeting with the Irish Autism Alliance; the Irish Society for Autism; the Aspergers

Syndrome Association of Ireland Ltd (ASPIRE); and the Departments of Health & Children and Education & Science on progress made in implementing the recommendations contained in the published Report of the Task Force on Autism commissioned by the Department of Education & Science.

The Chairman welcomed the following representatives to the meeting;

Mr. Marc Di Salvo and Ms. Kathy Sinnott from the Irish Autism Alliance, Mr. Pat Mathews and Mr. Denis Sexton from the Irish Society for Autism, Ms Ornaigh Malone and Mr. Des McKernan from the Aspergers Syndrome Association of Ireland Ltd (ASPIRE), Mr. Donal Devitt and Ms. Frances Fletcher from the Departments of Health & Children and Mr. Peter Baldwin and Mr. Liam Hughes from the Department of Education and Science.

He also welcomed the representatives of the three organisations and two departments sitting in the public gallery.

The Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children, Deputy Batt O’Keeffee, then welcomed the representatives on behalf of the members of the Joint Committee on Health and Children.

The Chairman indicated that the Members had been circulated with a timetable for the meeting, which had been agreed by the Chairmen and convenors of the two committees and asked that they would operate within that timescale.

The Chairman then drew attention to the fact that members of the two Committees have absolute privilege, but this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee. He also reminded members are reminded of the long standing Parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

There followed presentations by Mr. Marc Di Salvo and Ms. Kathy Sinnott of the Irish Autism Alliance, Mr. Pat Mathews, Executive Director of the Irish Society for Autism, Ms Ornaigh Malone, Development Officer of the Aspergers Syndrome Association of Ireland Ltd (ASPIRE), Mr. Donal Devitt, Assistant Secretary at the Department of Health and Mr. Peter Baldwin Assistant Secretary at the Department of Education and Science.

The Meeting suspended briefly between each presentation. Following the presentations, the meeting suspended from 10.29a.m. to 11:10a.m.

A question and answer session followed.

It was agreed that Mr. Balwin would supply the two Committees with a report on the Middleton Centre in County Armagh and also details of the proposed training courses for special needs assistants.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the representatives of the Irish Autism Alliance, the Irish Society for Autism, the Aspergers Syndrome Association of Ireland Ltd (ASPIRE), the Department of Health and the Department of Education and Science for their contribution to a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned sine die.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Science

19th June, 2003

_______________________

Batt O’Keeffe

Chairman of the Joint Committee on Health and Children

19th June, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 19^th June, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, and John Minihan.

An apology for inability to attend was received from Deputy Sean Crowe

Also in attendance was Deputy Donie Cassidy.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

6.Meeting with the Minister for Education and Science Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D., to consider the National Council for Special Education (Establishment Order) 2003

The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Education and Science, Mr. Noel Dempsey T.D. and his officials to the meeting, to assist the committee in its consideration of the proposal that Dáil and Seanad Éireann would approve the following draft order

National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order, 2003

The Chairman invited the Minister to make a presentation, which was followed by a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for the presentation and for the question and answer session.

The Chairman then said that in accordance with Dáil Standing Order 85, the Clerk would send a message to the Dáil indicating that the Joint Committee on Education and Science had completed its consideration of the proposal that Dáil Éireann approve the following draft Order : National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order 2003; and would also, in accordance with Seanad Standing Order 67, send a message to the Seanad indicating that the Joint Committee on Education and Science had completed its consideration of the proposal that Seanad Éireann approve the following draft Order : National Council for Special Education (Establishment) Order 2003 .

The meeting was suspended at 1.19 pm and resumed at 2.18 p.m.

7.Meeting with Secretary General of the Department of Education and Science Mr. John Dennehy to consider the Statement of Strategy 2003-2005 of the Department of Education and Science

The Chairman welcomed Mr. John Dennehy, Secretary General of the Department of Education and Science to the meeting.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of this Committee have absolute privilege, the same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The Chairman then invited Mr. Dennehy to make a presentation to the meeting.

On conclusion of a presentation by Mr. Dennehy, there followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Mr. Dennehy and his colleagues for their attendance. The Chairman asked that Mr. Dennehy would provide the committee with a written response to any questions which, due to time pressure, he had not been able to answer in the question and answer session. Mr. Dennehy agreed to provide the committee with a report.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 15.40 p.m. until Thursday 26 June, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

3^rd July, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 26^th June, 2003

1.The meeting commenced at 11.32 a.m. in public session.

2.Attendance:

The following members attended:

Deputies Síle deValera, Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Barry Andrews, Olwyn Enright, Tony Killeen (in the chair), Sean Crowe and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

Apologies were received from Deputies Máire Hoctor and Jan O’Sullivan.

In Public Session

3.EU Scrutiny

The list of proposals considered by the Sub-Committee on EU scrutiny at its meetings on 29^th May and 12^th June, 2003 had been circulated to the Members. It was agreed that the Committee do not wish to scrutinise any of the proposals

In Private Session

3.1Item discussed with in private session

In Public Session

4.Meeting with the Minister of State at the Department of Education and Science, Deputy Sile De Valera.

The Minister of State addressed the Committee on the proposal that Dáil and Seanad Éireann would approve the Employment Equality Act 1998 (section 12) (Church of Ireland College of Education) Order 2003

There followed a question and answer session.

In accordance with Dáil Standing Order 85 and Seanad Standing Order 67 the Committee instructed the Clerk to send the following messages to the two Houses:-

The Joint Committee on Education and Science has completed its consideration of the proposal that Dáil Éireann approve the following draft Order :

Employment Equality Act 1998 (section 12) (Church of Ireland College of Education) Order 2003

The Joint Committee on Education and Science has completed its consideration of the proposal that Seanad Éireann approve the following draft Order :

Employment Equality Act 1998 (section 12) (Church of Ireland College of Education) Order 2003

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 12.08 p.m. until Thursday, 3^rd July 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Deputy Tony Killeen T.D.

Chairman

3 July, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 3^rd July, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.30 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

Also in attendance was Deputy Roisín Shorthall.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Private Session

6.Presentation from Educate Together

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Paul Rowe, Chief Executive Officer at Educate Together, together with his colleagues, Ms Belinda Moller, Director, Ms. Marian Fitzpatrick, Director and Ms. Jane McCarthy, Development Officer, who were attending the meeting to make a presentation to the Committee.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

He also reminded Members of the long standing Parliamentary Practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

Mr. Rowe then made a presentation to the Committee. Following the presentation, there was a question and answer session.

It was agreed that the issues outlined on pages 3, 6 and 7 of Educate Together’s presentation would be discussed with the Minister when he came to a meeting of the Committee to discuss the Building Programme.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Mr. Rowe, Ms Moller, Ms. Fitzpatrick and Ms. McCarthy for their contribution to a very interesting and informative meeting.

There being no other business, the Committee is adjourned until 10 July 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

17 July, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 10^th July, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.32 a.m. in Committee Room 1 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, Ned O’Keefe*, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, John Minihan and Pat Moylan**

* Deputy O’Keefe in substitution for Deputy Michael Mulcahy for part of the meeting, ** Senator Moylan in substitution for Senator Liam Fitzgerald.

Apologies were received from Deputy Paul Gogarty.

In Private session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

7.Item discussed in private session

In Public session

8.Presentation by Dr Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh, Deputy Chief Inspector at the Department of Education and Science and Dr Tom Kellaghan, Director the from the Educational Research Centre, Drumcondra, concerning Literacy, with particular reference to the Joint OECD/UNESCO report entitled ‘Literacy Skills for the World of Tomorrow’

The Chairman welcomed, Dr Cearbhall Ó Dálaigh Deputy Chief Inspector from the Department of Education and Science and Dr Tom Kellaghan from the Educational Research Centre, Drumcondra.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

Dr. Ó Dálaigh and Dr. Kellaghan then made a presentation to the Committee. Following the presentation, there was a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Dr. Ó Dálaigh and Dr. Kelleghan for their contribution to a very interesting and informative meeting.

There being no other business, the Committee is adjourned at 12.59 p.m. until 17 July 2003 at 11.00 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

24 July, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 17^th July, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.03 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, John Curran, John Ellis*, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Ned O’Keefe**, Jan O’Sullivan, Brendan Smith* and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Cyprian Brady***, John Minihan and Diarmuid Wilson***.

* Deputies John Ellis and Brendan Smith in substitution for Deputies Barry Andrews and Máire Hoctor respectively (for part of the meeting),

** Deputy Ned O’Keefe in substitution for Deputy Michael Mulcahy,

*** Senators Cyprian Brady and Diarmuid Wilson substituted alternately for Senator Liam Fitzgerald.

In Private Session]

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Sos

The Committee suspended from 11.05 a.m. to 11:38 a.m.

In Public Session

7.Meeting with the Minister for Education and Science Mr. Noel Dempsey to discuss the Building Programme of the Department of Education and Science.

The Chairman welcomed, Minister Dempsey and his officials to the meeting.

Before beginning, the Chairman reminded Members of the long standing Parliamentary practice to the effect that members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

The Minister then made a presentation to the Committee. Following the presentation, there was a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for attending their attendance.

There being no other business, the Committee was adjourned until 24 July, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

31 July, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 24^th July, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Ned O’Keefe*, Jan O’Sullivan, and David Stanton.

Senators Ulick Burke, Paddy Burke**, Timmy Dooley**, Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

* Deputy Ned O’Keefe in substitution for Deputy Michael Mulcahy,

** Senator Paddy Burke in substitution for Senator Ulick Burke (for part of the meeting) and Senator Timmy Dooley in substitution for Senator Liam Fitzgerald (for part of the meeting).

Apologies were received from Deputy Paul Gogarty.

In Private session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Private session

6.Meeting with the Minister of State for Education and Science Ms. Síle de Valera to discuss Adult Education.

The Chairman welcomed the Minister of State and her officials

The Minister of State made a presentation to the Committee on Adult Education. A question and answer session followed during which the following matters were given particular attention, namely,

the need to establish, on a statutory basis, the National Adult Learning Council;

the current situation regarding local education facilitators;

the need to target marginalized and non-participatory groups such as travellers and immigrants; and the need to emphasize counseling as well as guidance services.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Minister of State Síle de Valera and her officials for meeting with the Joint Committee and for the comprehensive manner in which she dealt with the matters raised by members.

The Committee was adjourned at 1.11 p.m. until 31st July, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

9 September, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 31^st July, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.33a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Ned O’Keefe* and David Stanton

Senators Paddy Burke**, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan, John Phelan***, Joanna Tuffy

* In substitution for Deputy Michael Mulcahy

**, *** In substitution for Senator Ulick Burke for part of the meeting

Apologies were received from Deputies Sean Crowe and Jan O’Sullivan.

The Committee agreed to go into private session to deal with minutes and some private business, before continuing in public session.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

6.Item discussed in private session

7.Item discussed in private session

8.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

9.Presentation by Mr. Jerome Morrissey, Director of the National Centre for Technology in Education concerning Information and Communications Technology in Schools.

The Chairman welcomed Mr. Jerome Morrissey, Director of the National Centre for Technology in Education and his colleagues, Mr. Mike O’Byrne, National Co-ordinator (ScoilNet) and Ms. Anne White, National Co-ordinator, (Interactive Software in the Curriculum) to the meeting to discuss Information and Communications Technology in Schools.

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

Mr. Morrissey and his colleagues then made a presentation to the Committee. Following the presentation, there was a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Mr. Morrissey, Mr. O’Byrne and Ms. White for their attendance.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until 9 September, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

9 September, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 9^th September, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 10.50 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), John Ellis*, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Ned O’Keefe* and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

Substitutes Deputies John Ellis and Ned O’Keefe for Deputies Barry Andrews and Michael Mulcahy respectively

3.Apologies were received from Deputies Barry Andrews and Jan O’Sullivan.

In Public Session

4.Minutes

The minutes of the meetings of the 24^th and 31^st July were agreed.

5.EU Scrutiny

With regard to the proposals considered by the Sub-Committee on EU scrutiny at its meeting on the 24 July 2003, it was noted that none of the proposals had been referred to the Committee for scrutiny, and none of them had the Department of Education as a lead or secondary department. It was agreed that the Committee did not wish to scrutinise any of the proposals.

6.Correspondence

a)Letter the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, forwarding a copy of correspondence from Ms. Loretto Byrne.

It was agreed that this would be dealt with after the Committee had decided what to do concerning item b).

b)E-mail, from Deputy Olywn Enright, to the Chairman, concerning the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse.

It was agreed that the Committee would invite Minister Dempsey, as a matter of urgency, to a meeting of the committee, to discuss issues arising from the resignation of Justice Laffoy, and the ongoing work of the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse.

It was also agreed that the Parliamentary Legal Advisor would be asked to advise the Committee in relation to what constructive role the Committee could have with regard to this issue into the future.

In Private Session

7.Item discussed in private session

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until 11.30 a.m. for a joint meeting with the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs to meet Music Network.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

24 September, 2003.

Joint Meeting of Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs And Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Meeting

Tuesday 9^th September, 2003

1.The Joint Committees met at 11.30 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs

Deputies James Breen, Michael Collins, Jim Glennon, Cecilia Keaveney (in the chair) Peter Kelly and Brian O’Shea.

Senators Joe McHugh, Labhrás Ó Murchú, Kieran Phelan and Timmy Dooley*.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Deputies Tony Killeen, Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Máire Hoctor, and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Barry Andrews, Paul Gogarty and Jan O’Sullivan.

*In substitution for Senator Kieran Phelan for part of the meeting

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Jimmy Deenihan and Fiona O’Malley

In Public Session

3.Presentation by Music Network

The Chairmen of both Committees welcomed Ms Deirdre McCrea, Chief Executive officer of Music Network, and Mr. Martin Drury, Chairman of the Advisory Group to the meeting

The Chairman then drew attention to the fact that members of both Committees had absolute privilege, but this same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee. Members were also reminded of the long standing Parliamentary practice to the effect that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name in such a way as to make him or her identifiable.

There followed a presentation by Music Network.

A question and answer session with members followed.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the representatives of Music Network for their contribution to a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 12.42 p.m. sine die.

_______________________

Cecilia Keaveney T.D.

Chairman of the Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community,

Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs

October, 2003

_______________________

Tony Killeen, T.D.

Chairman of the Joint Committee on Education and Science

October, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday, 24^th September, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11.35 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, John Carty*, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Paddy Burke**, Joe Mchugh**, Liam Fitzgerald, Pat Moylan***, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

* In substitution for Deputy Thomas McEllistrim

**In substitution for Senator Ulick Burke for (part of the meeting)

***In substitution for Senator Liam Fitzgerald (for part of the meeting)

Apologies were received from Deputy Thomas McEllistrim.

Also in attendance Deputy Finian McGrath

In Public Session

3.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•St Vincents Parents Support Group

•COPE Foundation, Cork

•Down Syndrome Ireland

•NAMHI

•Rehab

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Mr. Seamus Cowman and Mr. Shay Feehily presenting on behalf of St Vincent’s Parents Support Group.

Ms. Maura Nash, Chief Executive and Ms. Mary Desmond, Head Psychologist presenting on behalf of COPE Foundation, Cork.

Ms. Maree O’Connor, Education Officer and Mr. Gerry Bohan, Member of Education Committee presenting on behalf of Down Syndrome Ireland.

Ms. Deirdre Carroll, General Secretary and Mr. Bill Shorten, Honorary Secretary presenting on behalf of NAMHI.

Ms. Angela Kerins, Director of Public Affairs and Ms. Cliodhna O’Neill, Senior Public Affairs Executive presenting on behalf of Rehab.

A question and answer session with Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance and presentations.

4.Sos

The Committee suspended from 1.00 p.m. to 2.04 p.m.

In Public Session

5.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 (resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•Association of Community and Comprehensive Schools, Irish Vocational Education Association and Joint Managerial Body

•National Federation of Voluntary Bodies

•Irish Primary Principals Network

•National Association of Principals and Deputy Principals

•Catholic Primary Schools Managers Association

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Mr. Liam Ryder, Ms. Ann Dinan and Mr. Shay Feehily presenting on behalf of ACCS, IVEA and JMB

Ms. Maura Nash, Chairperson and Ms. Maria Walls, Director of Research and Membership Services presenting on behalf of National Federation of Voluntary Bodies

Mr. Sean Cottrell Director and Mr. David Ruddy Principal of Talbot SNS presenting on behalf of Irish Primary Principals Network

Ms. Mary McGlynn, Director and Mr. Tim Geraghty, Member of Executive Association presenting on behalf of the National Association of Principals and Deputy Principals

Rev. Dan O’Connor, General Secretary and Sr. Mary Collins, President of the Association of Primary Teaching Sisters presenting on behalf of Catholic Primary Schools Managers Association

A question and answer session with Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance and presentations.

6.Sos

The Committee suspended from 3.23 p.m. to 4.18 p.m.

In Public Session

7.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 (resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•National Parents Council Primary

•Psychological Society of Ireland

•Dyslexia Association of Ireland

•National Parents and Siblings Alliance

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Ms. Fionnuala Kilfeather, CEO and Ms. Geraldine Graydon, National Representative for Special Education presenting on behalf of the National Parents Council Primary

Mr. Joe Mac Donagh, President and Mr. James Connolly, Past President presenting on behalf of the Psychological Society of Ireland

Ms. Anne Hughes, Director and Ms. Martina Colleran, Psychologist presenting on behalf of the Dyslexia Association of Ireland

Mr. Eamon Egan, Chairperson and Mr. Seamus Greene, National Co-Ordinator presenting on behalf of the National Parents and Siblings Alliance

A question and answer session with Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance and presentations.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until 25^th September, 2003 at 10.00 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

9 October, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 25^th September, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 10.07 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Sean Crowe, Ned O’Keefe¹, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Cecilia Keaveney², John Ellis³, Michael Mulcahy, Billy Kelleher⁴, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, John Paul Phelan⁵, Liam Fitzgerald, Camillus Glynn⁶, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

¹ In Substitution for Deputy John Currran

² In substitution for Deputy Máire Hoctor (for part of the meeting)

³ In substitution for Deputy Thomas McEllistrim

⁴ In substitution for Deputy Michael Mulcahy (for part of the meeting)

⁵ In substitution for Senator Ulick Burke for (part of the meeting)

⁶ In substitution for Senator Liam Fitzgerald (for part of the meeting)

Apologies were received from Deputy John Curran

In Public Session

3.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003(resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•Aspergers Syndrome Association (Aspire)

•Hope Project

•Irish Autism Alliance

•Irish Society for Autism

•Irish Progressive Association for Autism

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Ms. Ornaigh Malone, Development Officer representing Aspire (Aspergers Syndrome Association).

Mr. Andrew Godson, representing the Hope Project.

Mr. Marc De Salvo, Vice-Chairman and Mr. Dave Highland, Executive Member of the Alliance representing the Irish Autism Alliance

Mr. Pat Matthews, Executive Director and Mr. Dennis Sexton, Member of Society representing the Irish Society for Autism

Mr. Kieran Kennedy, Chairperson representing the Irish Progressive Association for Autism

The Chairman thanked the groups, there then followed a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance.

4.Sos

The Committee suspended from 11.17 a.m. to 11.53 a.m.

In Public Session

5.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003(resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•Association for Higher Education Access and Disability (AHEAD)

•H.A.D.D. Family Support Group

•ASTI

•INTO

•TUI

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Ms. Ann Heelan, Director and Prof. John Kelly, Chairperson of Board representing the Association for Higher Education Access and Disability (AHEAD)

Ms. Bernadette Mahady, Vice Chairperson and Ms. Geraldine Graydon, Committee Member representing the H.A.D.D. Family Support group

Ms. Moira Leydon, Assistant General Secretary representing the ASTI

Mr. John Carr, General Secretary and Mr. Tom O’Sullivan, Assistant General Secretary representing the INTO

Mr. Derek Dunne, President of the TUI and Ms Mary Grogan, of the Centre for Independent Living representing the TUI

A question and answer session with the Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their for their attendance.

6.Sos

The Committee suspended from 1.23 p.m. to 2.30 p.m.

In Public Session

7.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003(resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•Irish Wheelchair Association

•Disability Federation of Ireland

•National Disability Authority

•Dyspraxia (DCI) Association

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege does not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Mr. Olan McGowan, National Advocacy and Media Co-ordinator and Ms. Marie Lynch, Eastern Regional Manager representing the Irish Wheelchair Association.

Ms. Joanne McCarthy, Regional Support Officer and Mr. John Dolan, CEO representing the Disability Federation of Ireland

Ms. Christine Whyte, Head Policy and Public Affairs Adviser and Ms. Mary Meaney, Senior Policy and Public Affairs Adviser representing the National Disability Authority

Ms. Orla Stanley, Secretary and Ms. Siobhan Gallagher, Vice Chairperson representing Dyspraxia (DCI) Association

A question and answer session with the Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 3:35p.m. until 29^th September, 2003 at 3.00 p.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

23 October, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Monday, 29^th September, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 3.04 p.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ann Ormonde*, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy.

Also in attendance Deputy Joan Burton

*In substitution for Liam Fitzgerald

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

4.Meeting with the Minister for Education and Science Mr. Noel Dempsey

The Chairman welcomed the Minister and his officials to the meeting. The Minister addressed the Joint Committee on the issues relating to the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse, the ongoing review of the Investigation Committee of the Commission and the resignation of Ms Justice Laffoy which is scheduled to take effect in November.

Following his address there followed a question and answer session with the members during which a number of specific topics were raised, namely, the resources allocated to the Commission; the problems, if any, that exist in the current legislation; the review of the Commission; the interim report of Laffoy; the agreement reached with the religious orders regarding the payment of compensation; and the administration of the Commission vis a vis the Department of Education and Science.

Following the question and answer session the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for meeting with the Joint Committee.

5.Suspension

The meeting was suspended from 4.07 p.m. to 4.18 p.m. following disorder in the public gallery. The Chairman, on behalf of the Joint Committee, apologised to the Minister and his officials and to Deputy Mulcahy, the member in possession at that time.

In Private session

6.Item discussed in private session

There being no other business the meeting is adjourned 6.33 p.m. until 10.00 a.m. on Thursday 2^nd October, 2003

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

9 October, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 2^nd October, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 10.11 a.m. in Committee Room 3 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Ulick Burke, Pat Moylan*, John Minihan and Joanna Tuffy

*In substitution for Senator Liam Fitzgerald.

Apologies were received from Deputy John Curran, Senator Liam Fitzgerald and Senator John Minihan

In Public Session

3.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 (resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•The Advisory Committee on the Education of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing

•Irish Deaf Society

•Irish Association for Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus

•National Council for the Blind

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The Chairman welcomed Ms. Amanda Coogan, Sign Language Interpreter to the meeting.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Ms. Carolyn Gleeson Parents of Deaf Children in Mainstream Schools and Mr. John Bosco Conama presenting on behalf of The Advisory Committee on the Education of the

Deaf and Hard of Hearing

Mr. Kevin Stanley, Chairperson and Mr. Brian Crean, Board Member presenting on behalf of the Irish Deaf Society

Mr. Nick Killian, CEO presenting on behalf of Irish Association for Spina Bifida and Hydrocephalus

Mr. Desmond Kenny, Chief Executive and Ms. Elaine Howley, Director of Services presenting on behalf of the National Council for the Blind

A question and answer session with the Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their for their attendance.

4.Sos

The Committee suspended from 11.34 a.m. to 12.14 p.m.

In Public Session

5.Presentations on the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 (resumed)

The Chairman welcomed representatives of:

•People with Disabilities in Ireland

•IPPA - the early Childhood Organisation

•The Children’s Rights Alliance

•All Children Together

•Forum of People with Disabilities

The Chairman drew attention to the fact that while members of this Committee had absolute privilege, this same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Mr. Gerry Ellis, Board Member and Ms. Mary Walsh, Board Member and School Teacher presenting on behalf of People with Disabilities in Ireland.

Ms. Irene Gunning, CEO and Ms. Carmel Brennan, Assistant Director, Quality Improvement Programme presenting on behalf of IPPA - the early Childhood Organisation

Ms. Maria Corbett, Policy Officer and Mr. Raymond Dooley, CEO presenting on behalf of the Children’s Rights Alliance

Ms. Margaret Carroll, Chairperson and Ms. Deirdre Hennigan, Member presenting on behalf of All Children Together

Mr. Peter Kearns, Social Policy Worker presenting on behalf of the Forum of People with Disabilities.

A question and answer session with the Members followed.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all the groups for their attendance and contribution to a very interesting and thought-provoking discussion.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned until 9^th October, 2003 at 11.30 a.m.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

9 October, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 9 October, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11:34 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Michael Mulcahy, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan .

In Private Session

3.Items discussed in private session.

4.Items discussed in private session.

5.Items discussed in private session.

6.Items discussed in private session.

7.Items discussed in private session.

There being no other business the meeting was adjourned at 11:59 a.m. until 11:30 a.m. on Thursday 23^rd October, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

23 October, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 23^rd October, 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11. 09 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Olwyn Enright, Máire Hoctor, Peter Kelly*, Thomas McEllistrim and David Stanton.

*Deputy Peter Kelly substituted for Deputy Michael Mulcahy.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Séan Crowe, Paul Gogarty and Jan O’Sullivan.

The Committee agreed to go into private session to deal with minutes and some private business before continuing in public session.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session.

4.Item discussed in private session.

5.Item discussed in private session.

6.Item discussed in private session.

In Public Session

7.Meeting with representatives of the Department of Education and Science, the National Qualifications Authority, FETAC and HETAC to discuss S.I. No 372 of 2003 transposing EU Directive 99/42/EC European Communities (Recognition of Qualifications and Experience) Regulations 2003 and developments in the area of recognition and award of qualifications and related issues.

The Chairman welcomed representatives of the Department of Education and Science, the National Qualifications Authority of Ireland, FETAC and HETAC to the meeting. He apologised to the representatives for a smaller attendance of Members than is usual. He explained that this was due to the scheduling of Second Stage of the Education for Persons with Disabilities Bill 2003 in the House at a time which overlapped with the Committee meeting and that a number of Committee Members were required to be in the House.

Before commencement of the presentations, the Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of the Committee had absolute privilege, the same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

The following representatives were then called upon to make their presentations:

Ms. Margaret Kelly, Principal Officer Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment Policy Unit, Department of Education and Science,

Séan O Foghlú, Chief Executive, National Qualifications Authority of Ireland,

Mr. Stan Mc Hugh, Chief Executive and Ms. Barbara Kelly, Director of Awards and Standards Further Education and Training Awards Council, and

Mr. Séamus Puirséil, Chief Executive, Higher Education and Training Awards Council

On conclusion of the presentations, there followed a question and answer session with Members.

Declaration of Interest

Before contributing to the discussion on the new draft consolidated Directive on verification and recognition of qualifications being negotiated currently in the EU Commission, Senator John Minihan declared an interest in the area of Article 40 relating to Pharmacists.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked all representatives for their attendance and presentations.

There being no other business the meeting was adjourned at 1.45 p.m. until Thursday, 6^th November, 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

6 November, 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 6^th November 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11:35 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Jan O’Sullivan (in the chair), Barry Andrews, Seán Crowe, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Thomas McEllistrim, Michael Mulcahy, David Stanton and Brendan Smith*.

* In substitution for Deputy Tony Killeen.

Senator Ulick Burke and John Minihan.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Tony Killeen and Senator Liam Fitzgerald.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session.

4.Item discussed in private session.

5.Item discussed in private session.

In Public Session]

6.Presentations by Dr. Mona O’Moore, Head of Education Department, TCD, on measures to prevent and counter bullying in schools and by Mr. Sean McCarthy, Regional Suicide Resource Officer, South Eastern Health Board and his colleagues on the issue of suicide in an educational context, with special reference to the recent programme run at the Kilkenny Education Centre concerning suicide awareness in schools.

The Chairman welcomed Dr O’Moore Head of Education Department, TCD and Mr. Sean McCarthy, Regional Suicide Resource Officer, South Eastern Health Board and his colleagues, Dr. Neville de Souza, Public Health Specialist and Mr. John Kennedy, Training and Development Officer.

Dr O’Moore and Mr. McCarthy were then called upon to make their presentations:

On conclusion of the presentations, there followed a question and answer session with Members.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Dr. O’Moore, Mr. McCarthy, Dr. deSouza and Mr. Kennedy for their attendance and presentations.

There being no other business the meeting was adjourned at 1:07p.m. until Thursday, 20 November 2003.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

20 November 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 20 November 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 09.38 a.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), John Curran, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Dinny McGinley*, Charlie O’Connor*, Ned O’Keefe*, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton*.

* In substitution for Deputies Olwyn Enright, Barry Andrews and Michael Mulcahy respectively.

Senators Ulick Burke, Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Barry Andrews and Olwyn Enright.

Go Poiblí

D’aontaigh comhaltaí an Chomhchoste go gcuirfeá mír a haon go dtí mír a trí ar an gclár gnó ar leath taobh go dtí 11:30a.m.

3.Cur in Láthair ó Oifigigh le Gaelscoileanna.

Chuir an Cathaoirleach fáilte roimh Cholm O’Dúlacháin agus roimh a chomhghleacaithe, Donal O’hAiniféin, Uachtarán ar Ghaelscoileanna agus Fionnuala Uí Chíosóg Feidhmeannach le Gaelscoileanna.

Sular thósnaigh an cur in láthair, duirt an Cathaoirleach go raibh cosaint phribhléide ag na comhaltaí den Chomhchoiste, ach nach amhlaidh i gcás na bhfínnéithe. Duirt sé freisin nach chóir idé-bhéil a chaitheamh anuas ar aon duine nach féidir leis é féin nó nach féidir lei í féin a chosaint.

Ansin lean an tUasal Uí Dhúlacháin ar aghaidh leis an gcur i láthair.

In dhiaidh sin, d’fhreagair an tUasal Uí Dhúlacháin agus a comhghleacaithe ceisteanna na gcomhaltaí.

Nuair a bhí deireadh le ceisteanna na gcomhaltaí, ghabh an Cathaoirleach a bhuíochas leis an tUasal Uí Dhúlacháin, leis an tUasal Uí Ainiféin agus leis an tUasal Uí Chíosóg as ucht teacht os comhair an Chomhchoiste agus as ucht ceisteanna an Chomhchoiste a fhreagairt.

4.SOS.

Cuireadh an cruinniú ar athló ag 10:47a.m go dtí 11.40 a.m.

The Committee agreed to go into private session to deal with minutes and some private business before continuing in public session.

In Private Session

5.Item discussed in private session.

6.Item discussed in private session.

7.Item discussed in private session.

8.Item discussed in private session.

In Public Session

9.Meeting with the Minister of State for Children Mr. Brian Lenihan to discuss education for young offenders and extremely disruptive children.

The Chairman welcomed the Minister of State and his officials.

The Minister of State made a presentation to the Committee on education for young offenders and extremely disruptive children.

There followed a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Minister of State Brian Lenihan and his officials for meeting the Joint Committee.

There being no other business the meeting was adjourned at 13.20 until Thursday, 4^th December 2003 at 11.30.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

18 December 2003.

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 18 December 2003

1.The Joint Committee met at 11:40 p.m. in Committee Room 2 LH2000.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:

Deputies Tony Killeen (in the chair), Seán Crowe, John Curran, Olwyn Enright, Paul Gogarty, Máire Hoctor, Tony Killeen, Thomas McEllistrim, Jan O’Sullivan and David Stanton.

Senators Liam Fitzgerald and John Minihan

Apology for inability to attend was received from Deputy Barry Andrews.

In Private Session

3.Item discussed in private session

4.Item discussed in private session

5.Item discussed in private session

In Public Session

6.Meeting with representatives of NEPS to discuss progress in respect of the establishment of NEPS countrywide.

The Chairman welcomed Ms Lee McCurtain, Acting Director of the National Educational Psychological Services or NEPS, who was accompanied by Mr. Sean Wiley, H.E.O.

Before commencement of the presentation, the Chairman drew attention to the fact that whereas members of the Committee had absolute privilege, the same privilege did not apply to witnesses appearing before the Committee.

Ms McCurtain then made a presentation to the committee. There followed a question and answer session.

On conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Ms McCurtain and Mr. Wiley for making the presentation to the committee.

There being no other business the meeting was adjourned at 13:36 until Thursday, 29^th January 2004 at 11.30.

_______________________

Tony Killeen

Chairman

29 January, 2004.

APPENDIX 5

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 14th November, 2002

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 21st November, 2002

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 12th December, 2002

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 16th January, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 23rd January, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 30th January, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 6th February, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 13th February, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 27th February, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday, 11th March, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday, 27th March, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 10th April, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 24th April, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 1st May, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 8th May, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 15th May, 2003

Joint Meeting of Joint Committee on Education and Science And Joint Committee on Health and Children

Proceedings of the Joint Meeting

Thursday, 22nd May, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 19th June, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 26th June, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 3rd July, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 10th July, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 17th July, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 24th July, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 31st July, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Thursday, 9th September, 2003

Joint Meeting of Joint Committee on Arts, Sport, Tourism, Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs And Joint Committee on Education and Science

Proceedings of the Joint Meeting

Tuesday 9th September, 2003

Joint Committee on Education and Science

Thursday, 14^th November, 2002

Thursday, 21^st November, 2002

Thursday, 12^th December, 2002

Thursday, 16^th January, 2003

Thursday, 23^rd January, 2003

Thursday, 30^th January, 2003

Thursday, 6^th February, 2003

Thursday, 13^th February, 2003

Thursday, 27^th February, 2003

Tuesday, 11^th March, 2003

Tuesday, 27^th March, 2003

Thursday, 10^th April, 2003

Thursday, 24^th April, 2003

Thursday, 1^st May, 2003

Thursday, 8^th May, 2003

Thursday, 15^th May, 2003

Thursday, 22^nd May, 2003

Thursday, 19^th June, 2003

Thursday, 26^th June, 2003

Thursday, 3^rd July, 2003

Thursday, 10^th July, 2003

Thursday, 17^th July, 2003

Thursday, 24^th July, 2003

Thursday, 31^st July, 2003

Thursday, 9^th September, 2003

Tuesday 9^th September, 2003

Wednesday, 24^th September, 2003

Thursday, 25^th September, 2003

Monday, 29^th September, 2003

Thursday, 2^nd October, 2003

Thursday, 23^rd October, 2003

Thursday, 6^th November 2003