Committee Reports > List of Committees > Joint > 2001 > Committee on Finance and the Public Service > Annual Report of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, 2000

TITHE AN OIREACHTAIS

TUARASCÁIL BHLIANTÚIL

ón gComhchoiste um Airgeadas agus an tSeirbhís Phoiblí

ANNUAL REPORT

of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service

2000

TABLE OF CONTENTS

1. Content and Format of Report

This report has been prepared pursuant to paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 of Standing Order 79A, Dáil Éireann and paragraphs 3, 4, 5 and 6 of Standing Order 63, Seanad Éireann which provides for Joint Committee reports and work programmes as follows–

•review of its procedure and its role

•annual work programme

•laying minutes of proceedings

•making an annual report.

2. Functions and Powers of the Joint Committee

The Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service was established by Order of Dáil Éireann of 13th November, 1997 and Order of Seanad Éireann of 19th November, 1997 as part of a programme of Oireachtas reform involving the refining of the Committee system to enable more detailed examination of Government Departments including–

•public affairs administered by each Department

•legislature and expenditure proposals of each Department

•certain matters relating to bodies under the aegis of each Department.

The Orders of Reference of the Joint Committee are set out at Appendix 1.

3. Chairman, Vice-Chairman, Convenors and Membership

Deputy Michael Ahern was elected as Chairman of the Joint Committee on 2 December 1997. Deputy Liam Lawlor was elected as Vice-Chairman of the Joint Committee on 2 December, 1997. The Chairman of the Joint Committee is also Chairman of the Dáil Select Committee.

Deputies Sean Fleming and Jimmy Deenihan are the Convenors of the Committee whose function it is to ensure the availability and attendance of Members or their substitutes for meetings of the Committee and, in particular, to ensure Members’ availability for divisions.

The Committee welcomed the membership of Deputy Noel O’Flynn in place of Deputy Batt O’Keeffe on 11 April 2000.

The Members of the Joint Committee are set out at Appendix 2.

4. Meetings, Attendance and Recording

Meetings of the Joint Committee took place in the Committee rooms in Kildare House. Meetings were in public unless otherwise ordered by the Joint Committee.

Televised coverage of public meetings of the Joint Committee was broadcast live within the Leinster House complex and was available for subsequent public broadcasting by R.T.É. and other TV/Radio Services.

5. Number and Duration of Meetings

The Joint Committee met on nineteen occasions in the year under report. The number of hours discussion involved in these meetings was in excess of 22 hours. The date and subject matter of each meeting is set out at Appendix 3.

The Sub-Committee for the Review of Section 32(2) of the Freedom of Information Act, met on 6 occasions.

The Dáil Select Committee met on fourteen occasions in the year under report and the number of hours discussion involved in these meetings was in excess of 26 hours. The date and subject matter of each meeting is set out at Appendix 4.

Minutes of proceedings of the Joint Committee meeting in public session are attached at Appendix 6.

6. Work of the Committee

6.1 Joint Committee

On the nineteen occasions the Committee met it dealt with the following matters:

▪Anti-Corruption Legislation

▪National Plan

▪Irish League of Credit Unions

▪Single Regulatory Authority

▪Freedom of Information Act, 1997

▪Opportunities, Challenges and Capacities for Choice

▪Decentralisation

▪Role of OPW – in relation to decentralisation

▪Standards in Public Office Bill, 2000

▪ICC Bank, ACC Bank and TSB

A copy of the Joint Committees work programme for 2001 is at Appendix 7.

6.2 Dail Select Committee

On the thirteen occasions the Dail Select Committee met it dealt with the following matters:

▪Finance Bill 2000

▪Draft Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies)(No. 2) Regulations 2000

▪Estimates 2000 – Department of the Taoiseach

▪International Development Association (Amendment) Bill, 1999

▪Estimates 2000 – Department of Finance

▪Revised Estimates – Vote 10 Office of Public Works, Vote 44 Flood Relief

▪Double Taxation Relief Order, 2000 (Republic of Bulgaria)(Peoples Republic of China)

▪National Pensions Reserve Fund Bill, 2000

▪National Treasury Management Amendment Bill, 2000

▪ICC Bank Bill, 2000, Supplementary Estimates Vote 10 and Vote 44

▪Supplementary Estimate Vote 2 (Houses of the Oireachtas and the European Parliament)

▪Vote 6

▪Customs and Excise (Mutual Assistance) Bill, 2000

7. Groups and Individuals attending before the Committee

In the year under report the Joint Committee met with the following:

▪National Economic and Social Council

▪National Irish League of Credit Unions

▪Town & Country Homes Assoc.

▪Office of the Public Works

▪National Roads Authority (NRA) and Local Authorities

▪Monsieur David Payne, Monsieur Francois Ouimet, Madam Cecile Vermette, Members of the National Assembly of Quebec

▪Mr Colm Darling, Chief Executive, ACC Bank

The date and subject matter of presentations made to the Joint Committee is set out at Appendix 5.

8. Joint Committee Reports

During the year under report the Joint Committee published the following reports:

•Annual Report 1999/2000

•Work Programme 1999/2000

•Proposals for Anti-Corruption Legislation

•Report of the Implementation Advisory Group on the establishment of a Single Regulatory Authority

9. Bills and Estimates

During the year under report the Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service considered the following Bills and Estimates

10. Travel by the Joint Committee

The Committee undertook the following travel in accordance with its orders of reference in connection with its work programme.

Brussels: 10 October 2000

Meeting of the European Parliament’s Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs

Brussels: 22 November 2000

Meeting with the President of the European Parliament

11. Function and Powers

The Committee is happy with its present procedures and role.

_____________________

Michael Ahern, T.D.

Chairman of the Joint Committee

February 2001

APPENDICES

APPENDIX 1

Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service

Orders of Reference

Dáil Éireann

13th November, 1997: (**28th April, 1998),

Ordered:

(1) (a)That a Select Committee, which shall be called the Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service, consisting of 14 members of Dáil Éireann (of whom 4 shall constitute a quorum), be appointed to consider such-

(i)Bills the statute law in respect of which is dealt with by the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance, and

(ii)Estimates for Public Services within the aegis of those Departments,

as shall be referred to it by Dáil Éireann from time to time.

(b)For the purpose of its consideration of Bills under paragraph (1)(a)(i), the Select Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 78A(1), (2) and (3).

(c)For the avoidance of doubt, by virtue of their ex officio membership of the Select Committee in accordance with Standing Order 84(1), the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance (or a Minister or Minister of State nominated in their stead) shall be entitled to vote.

(2) (a)The Select Committee shall be joined with a Select Committee to be appointed by Seanad Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service to consider—

(i)such public affairs administered by the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance as it may select, including bodies under the aegis of those Departments in respect of Government policy,

(ii)such matters of policy for which the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance are officially responsible as it may select,

(iii)the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and shall be authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act, and

(iv)such Annual Reports or Annual Reports and Accounts, required by law and laid before either or both Houses of the Oireachtas, of bodies under the aegis of the Department(s) specified in paragraph 2(a)(i), and the overall operational results, statements of strategy and corporate plans

of these bodies, as it may select.

Provided that the Joint Committee shall not, at any time, consider any matter relating to such a body which is, which has been, or which is, at

that time, proposed to be considered by the Committee of Public Accounts pursuant to the Orders of Reference of that Committee and/or the Comptroller and Auditor General (Amendment) Act, 1993.

Provided further that the Joint Committee shall refrain from inquiring into in public session, or publishing confidential information regarding, any such matter if so requested either by the body or by the Minister in charge of that Department; and

(v)such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b)The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be 5, of whom at least 1 shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and 1 a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c)The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 78A(1) to (9) inclusive.

(3)The Chairman of the Joint Committee, who shall be a member of Dáil Éireann, shall also be Chairman of the Select Committee.

SEANAD ÉIREANN

19th November, 1997:

Ordered:

(1) (a)That a Select Committee consisting of 5 members of Seanad Éireann shall be appointed to be joined with a Select Committee of Dáil Éireann to form the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service to consider -

(i)such public affairs administered by the Department of the Taoiseach

(ii)and the Department of Finance as it may select, including bodies under the aegis of those Departments in respect of Government policy,

(ii)such matters of policy for which the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance are officially responsible as it may select,

(iii)the strategy statement laid before each House of the Oireachtas by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance pursuant to section 5(2) of the Public Service Management Act, 1997, and shall be authorised for the purposes of section 10 of that Act, and

(iv)such other matters as may be jointly referred to it from time to time by both Houses of the Oireachtas, and shall report thereon to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

(b)The quorum of the Joint Committee shall be 5, of whom at least 1 shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and 1 a member of Seanad Éireann.

(c)The Joint Committee shall have the powers defined in Standing Order 62A(1) to (9) inclusive.

(2)The Chairman of the Joint Committee shall be a member of Dáil Éireann

APPENDIX 2

Members of the Joint Committee

Deputy Noel O’Flynn was appointed in place of Deputy Batt O’Keeffe on 11 April 2000.

APPENDIX 3

Meetings of the Joint Committee

APPENDIX 4

Meetings of the Dáil Select Committee

APPENDIX 5

Presentations made to the Joint Committee

APPENDIX 6

Minutes of Proceedings of the Joint Committee

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 19 JANUARY 2000

1.The Committee met at 12:15 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern(Chairman), Michael Creed*, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe, David G. Stanton and Senators John Dardis, Joe Doyle and Joe O’Toole.

Apologies from Deputies Jimmy Deenihan and Sean Ryan

3.Minutes

The minutes of the meetings on the 24 November and 8 December 1999 were agreed and signed.

4.Correspondence

It was agreed that the Irish League of Credit Unions and the Town and Country Homes Association, who had written to the Committee, would be invited to appear before the Committee at the next meeting.

It was noted that a letter had been received from the Department of Finance, listing the bodies under the aegis of the Department who are required by law to prepare Annual Reports or Annual Reports and Accounts to be laid before the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Clerk had checked with the Secretariat and currently none of the bodies is being considered by the PAC, although this could change in the future.

5.Draft Annual Report

It was agreed that the annual report as amended would be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

6.Draft Work Programme

The Draft Work Programme was discussed and amended. It was agreed that the amended report would be brought forward at the next meeting for agreement.

It was agreed that the Clerk would draw up a draft schedule of meetings until the end of the session, indicating the topics and witness which would be called.

7.Proposals for Anti-Corruption Legislation.

The draft report on Proposals for Anti-Corruption Legislation was discussed. The report was agreed as amended and it was agreed that the report would be published and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. It was agreed that a copy of the report would be sent to the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Mr John O’Donoghue T.D.

8.National Plan.

It was agreed that the Committee would review the implementation of the National Plan as part of its work programme. It was agreed that the Committee would ask the main implementing agencies to appear before the Committee before the Summer recess and that their progress in implementing the Plan would be reviewed on an annual basis thereafter.

9.Any Other Business.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned until 2 February 2000 at 6:00p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

2 February 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 2 FEBRUARY 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:03p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, John Browne(Wexford),Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Derek McDowell, Batt O’Keeffe, Seán Ryan and David G. Stanton, and Senators Eddie Bohan, Joe Doyle, and Michael Finneran.

Apologies from Deputy Michael Noonan and Senator John Dardis.

[Private Session]

3. – 7.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

8.Presentation by the Irish League of Credit Unions

The Chairman welcomed Mr Frank Lynch, President, Mr Jim McMahon, Vice-President and Mr Tony Smyth, Secretary of the Irish League of Credit Unions and their colleagues, to the meeting.

Before inviting the witnesess to make short presentations, the Chairman indicated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not.

Following the presentation and a question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Mr Lynch, Mr McMahon, and Mr Smyth and their colleagues, for their attendance, which had resulted in a very informative discussion.

9.Any Other Business.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 7:41 p.m. until 16 February 2000 at 6:00p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

February 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 16 FEBRUARY 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:03p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Derek McDowell, Batt O’Keeffe and David G Stanton and Senators Eddie Bohan, Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran.

Apologies from Deputy Michael Noonan and Senator John Dardis.

[Private Session]

3. – 5.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

6.Meeting with the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Mr Martin Cullen to discuss the proposal to approve Draft Regulations entitled ‘Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) Regulations, 2000, and the report of the Civil Service Users’ Network entitled ‘Review of Administrative and Procedural Arrangements Governing FOI’, which were referred to the Committee by orders of the Dáil and Seanad on the 3 February 2000.

The Chairman welcomed the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Mr Martin Cullen to the meeting, along with Mr Kevin Cardiff, Mr Sean Garvey and Mr Ronan Fox from the Central Policy Unit in the Department of Finance and Mr Martin Shanagher from the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment and invited him to address the Committee.

There followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for their attendance. He said that the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public service had now completed its consideration of the proposal to approve Draft Regulations entitled ‘Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) Regulations, 2000’ and in accordance with Standing Order 79B of Dáil Éireann and Standing Order 67 of Seanad Éireann, the Clerk to the Joint Committee was thereby asked to convey this message to the Clerk of the Dáil and the Clerk of the Seanad.

7.Any other business

As there was no other business, the meeting was adjourned sine die at 7:06 p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman, March 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 15 March 2000

1.The Committee met at 12:06 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe, and Senators John Dardis, Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran

* Apologies received from Deputies Seán Ryan, Jimmy Deenihan and David G Stanton and Senator Joe O’Toole.

[Private Session]

3. - 4.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

5Meeting with Dr Síle O’Connor to discuss the report Opportunities, Challenges and Capacities for Choice

The Chairman welcomed Dr Síle O’Connor, and her colleagues to the meeting and invited her to address the Committee.

There followed a question and answer session.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Dr O’Connor and her colleagues Dr Orla Lane, Mr Noel Cahill and Mr Cathal Guiomard for their attendance and the interesting discussion which had ensued.

[Private Session]

7Any other business

As there was no other business, the meeting was adjourned sine die at 1:28 p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

April 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 5 April 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:05 p.m. in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming and Senators Eddie Bohan, Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran.

* Apologies received from Senator Joe O’Toole.

The Committee met in Private Session

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

April 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 12 April 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:05 p.m. in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, Seán Fleming, Derek McDowell and Senators Eddie Bohan, Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

* Apologies received from Deputy Michael Noonan.

3.Minutes of Previous meetings

The minutes of the meetings of the 15 March, 29 March and 5 April 2000 were agreed and signed.

4.Correspondence

There was no correspondence to deal with.

5.Sub-Committee for Review under Section 32(2)- Freedom of Information Act, 1997.

It was agreed that the membership of the Sub-Committee for Review under Section 32(2) - Freedom of Information Act, 1997 would be as follows;

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, Sean Fleming and Derek Mc Dowell and Senators John Dardis, Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

The Chairman said that the Clerk had indicated that the first meeting of the Sub-Committee would be held when the Joint Committee meeting was adjourned.

It was agreed that the Sub-Committee would be asked to report back with its report by the 7 June 2000

6.Any other business

As there was no other business, the meeting was adjourned sine die at 6:10 p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

May 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 10 May 2000

1.The Committee met at 2:00 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern(Chairman for part of the meeting), Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming (temporary Chairman for part of the meeting), Denis Foley, David G. Stanton and Noel O’Flynn and Senators Eddie Bohan, Joe Doyle and Joe O’Toole.

[Private session]

3. - 5.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

6.Role of OPW in relation to decentralisation

The Chairman welcomed Commissioner Seán Benton at the Office of Public Works and his colleague Mr Tom Sherlock to the meeting.

Before inviting Commissioner Benton to address the Committee, the Chairman indicated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not.

Following a presentation by the Commissioner there was a question and answer session. Deputy Seán Fleming took the Chair at 2:20p.m. approximately. Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Comissioner Benton and Mr Sherlock for their attendance which had resulted in a very interesting and informative discussion.

In response to Deputy Deenihans suggestion that the Minister for Finance, Mr Charlie McCreevy, would be invited by the Committee to address the Committee on the topic of decentralisation before the summer recess, it was agreed that the Clerk would look at the schedule of meetings to see where this could be fitted into the schedule.

There being no further business, the meeting is adjourned until the 24 May 2000.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

October, 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 24 MAY 2000

1.The Committee met at 5:35 p.m. in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Sean Fleming, Noel O’Flynn and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis, Joe Doyle, Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

[Private session]

3.The Committee met in Private Session

4.Any Other Business

It was agreed that the planned meetings with regard to the Committees review of the National Plan, would be postponed until the autumn.

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 5:40 p.m. sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

July 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 31 MAY 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:15 p.m. in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Gerry Reynolds *, Seán Fleming (temporary Chairman for part of the meeting), Michael Noonan, Noel O’Flynn, Seán Ryan and David G. Stanton and Senators John Dardis and Michael Finneran.

[Private Session]

3. – 5.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

6Meeting with Minister for Finance Mr Charlie McCreevy, T.D., to discuss decentralisation

The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Finance, Mr Charlie McCreevy T.D., to the meeting, along with Mr Jim McCaffrey, Assistant Secretary and Mr Paddy Howard, Principal Officer from the Department of Finance and invited the Minister to address the meeting.

There followed a question and answer session.

On the nomination of the Chairman, at 7:10p.m., it was agreed that Deputy Sean Fleming would be temporary Chairman for the remainder of the meeting.

Following the question and answer session, the Chairman thanked the Minister and his officials for their attendance at the meeting.

7.Any Other Business

Members were asked to note that the Select Committee would be considering the Finance group of Estimates on the 7 June 2000 at 5:15 p.m. As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 7:17 p.m. sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

July 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 14 JUNE 2000

1.The Committee met at 2:06 p.m. in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Seán Fleming, Noel O’Flynn, David G. Stanton, and Senator Eddie Bohan.

[Public Session]

3.Minutes of the previous meeting.

It was agreed the minutes of the last meeting would be circulated at the next meeting.

4.Correspondence

A letter from the Information Commissioner, received in response to a query from Deputy McDowell was noted.

In relation to a letter from Mr Prionnsias Breathnach, concerning decentralisation, it was agreed that the Clerk would reply to Mr Breathnach, indicating that his submission had been circulated to all members of the Committee.

[Private Session].

5.The Committee met in Private Session

6.Any other business.

It was noted that the Select Committee would be meeting on Wednesday 21 June 2000 to consider the OPW estimate and that the Sub-Committee for review under Section 32(2) of the FOI Act, 1997 still had a number of Departments to meet in relation to their reports. It was agreed that the two remaining scheduled slots of the Joint Committee, on 5 and 19 July 2000, would be used by the Sub-Committee for meetings with the Departments.

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 2:19 p.m. sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

July 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 5 JULY 2000

1.The Committee met at 10:38 a.m. in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis and Michael Finneran.

Apologies from Deputies Jimmy Deenihan and Sean Ryan and Senators Joe Doyle and Joe O’Toole.

[Private Session]

3.The Committee met in Private Session

4.Any other business

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:48 a.m. sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

July 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 19 JULY 2000

1.The Committee met at 11.11a.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Tony Kileen*, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Derek McDowell, Brendan McGahon, Michael Noonan, Ulick Burke and Senator Joe O’Toole.

[Private session]

3. - 4.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

5.Discussion with Officials of the Department of Finance re: ICCBank, ACCBank and TSB.

The Chairman welcomed Mr David Doyle, Assistant Secretary at the Department of Finance and his colleagues Mr John Palmer and Ms Susan Mulhall to the meeting.

Before inviting Mr Doyle to make a short presentation to the Committee, the Chairman indicated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not.

Following the presentation and a question and answer session, the Chairman thanked Mr Doyle and his colleagues for their attendance before the Committee.

6.Any Other Business

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

September 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 13 SEPTEMBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 11.10 a.m. in the Dáil Chamber, Leinster House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Matt Brennan *, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley and Senator Willie Farrell**.

Apologies were received from Deputies Louis Belton, Ulick Burke, Jimmy Deenihan, Brendan McGahon, Michael Noonan and Senators John Dardis and Joe Doyle.

[Private session]

3.The Committee met in Private Session

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

September 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

TUESDAY 26 SEPTEMBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 12:07p.m. in the Dáil Chamber, Leinster House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, Sean Fleming, Michael Noonan and Sean Ryan and Senators Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran.

Apologies from Senators John Dardis and Joe O’Toole.

[Private Session]

3. - 4.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

5.Minutes of Meetings

The meetings of the 13 September 2000 were agreed and signed.

6.Referral of Standards in Public Office Bill, 2000

It was agreed that the Committee would discuss the Standards in Public Office Bill, 2000, that a spokesman for each party would make a statement in relation to the Bill and that the floor would then be open to all Members.

Following the discussion, the Chairman said that the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public service has now completed its consideration of Standards in Public Office Bill, 2000 and in accordance with Standing Order 79B of Dáil Éireann and Standing Order 67 of Seanad Éireann, the Clerk to the Joint Committee was thereby asked to convey this message to the Clerk of the Dáil and the Clerk of the Seanad.

5.Any Other Business

It was agreed that the Committee would meet a Parliamentary Delegation from the National Assembly of Quebec, who would be visiting Ireland the following week, on Wednesday 4 October at 3:30p.m.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at12:46 p.m. until 4 October, 2000 at 3:30p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman, October, 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 4 OCTOBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 4:45 p.m. in G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, Sean Fleming, Liam Lawlor, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, Noel O’Flynn and Senators Joe Doyle Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

Apologies from Senator Eddie Bohan.

[Public Session]

3.Sos

As the delegation was delayed in an earlier meeting, the meeting was suspended from 3:45 p.m. to 4:05p.m.

4.Meeting with Parliamentary Delegation from the National Assembly of Quebec.

On behalf of the Committee, the Chairman welcomed

Monsieur David Payne, Member for Vacon,

Monsieur Francois Ouimet, Member for Marquette and

Madam Cécile Vermette, Member for Marie-Victorin.

Members of the Parliamentary Delegation from the National Assembly of Quebec to the meeting of the Joint Committee of Finance and the Public Service.

He indicated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not.

The Chairman then invited Monsieur Payne and the other Members of the Delegation to address the Committee, after which there was a general question and answer session.

On behalf of the members of the Committee, the Chairman then thanked Monsieur Payne, Monsieur Ouimet and Madam Vermette for their visit and expressed the hope that they enjoyed the rest of their visit to Ireland.

2.Any Other Business

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 4:54p.m. until 11 October, 2000 at 6:00p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

October, 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 11 OCTOBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 6:09 p.m. in G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Ulick Burke, Jimmy Deenihan, and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis, Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran.

[In Private Session]

3. - 4.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

5.Discussion with Officials of ACC Bank.

The Chairman welcomed Mr Colm Darling, Chief Executive, Mr Michael Geoghegan, General Manager - Business Development and Mr Paul McGowan, Chief Accountant of the ACCBANK to the meeting to discuss the Banks past and current activities and future Plans and indicated that all Members have been circulated with a copy of the Banks Annual Report for 1999.

The Chairman indicated that that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not and Members were are reminded of the long standing Parliamentary Practice to the effect that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him/her identifiable.

The Chairman then invited Mr Darling to address the Committee. Following the presentation by Mr Darling, there was a general question and answer session, which included contributions also from Mr Geoghegan and Mr McGowan.

On behalf of the Committee, the Chairman then thanked Mr Darling, Mr Geoghegan and Mr McGowan for attending the meeting.

6.Any Other Business

The Chairman indicated the Committee would consider the Freedom of Information Act 1997, (Prescribed Bodies)(No 3) Regulation 2000, which have been referred to the Committee by Orders of the Dáil and Seanad at the next meeting of the Committee on the 18 October, 2000.

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned until Wednesday, 18

October, 2000 at 6:00p.m. in G5.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

October 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 18 OCTOBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 6.11 p.m. in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present: Deputies Michael Ahern (in the chair), Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley, Derek McDowell, Noel O’Flynn and Senators John Dardis and Joe Doyle. Also present was the Minister of State, Mr. Martin Cullen, T.D.

[Public Session]

3.Minutes of Meetings

The minutes of the meetings of the 10 May, 26 September, 4 October and 11 October, 2000 were agreed and signed.

4.Correspondence

With regard to a letter from the Hungarian Embassy, it was agreed that the Committee would meet a delegation from the Budgetary and Financial Committee of the Hungarian Parliament delegation during the period proposed by the Committee 19-22 November, 2000. It was agreed that the Secretariat would liaise with the Hungarian Embassy to organise a suitable time for the meeting, if the Committee’s scheduled meeting at 6:00p.m. on Wednesday 20 November, 2000 was not suitable.

With regard to a letter forwarded by the Ceann Comhairle and Cathaoirleach from the European Parliament, about a meeting on 22 November, 2000, concerning the protection of the Financial Interests of the EU and the issue of a European Public Prosecutor, it was agreed that Committee wish to send a representative and that a formal travel proposal would be on the agenda of a future meeting.

A letter received concerning the 16th Conference "Transition to the Market Economy: Actual Problems in Economic and Financial Sectors" to be held in Dublin on the 22 October, at which the Chairman was invited to speak, was noted.

5.Sos

As the Minister for State, Mr Martin Cullen, was taking the second stage of the Customs and Excise (Mutual Assistance) Bill, 2000 in the Dáil, the meeting was suspended from 6.13 p.m. to 7.07 p.m.

6.Meeting with the Minister for State at the Department of Finance, Mr Martin Cullen, to discuss the proposal to approve Draft Regulations entitled ‘Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies) (No 3) Regulations, 2000 which were referred to the Committee by orders of the Dáil and Seanad.

The Chairman welcomed the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Mr Martin Cullen to this meeting, along with Mr Kevin Cardiff, Principal Officer and Mr Ronan Fox Assistant Principal from the Central Policy Unit in the Department of Finance.

Following a brief statement by the Minister, there was a question and answer session.

The Chairman thanked Minister Cullen and his officials for their attendance. He said that the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public service had now completed its consideration of the proposal to approve Draft Regulations entitled ‘Freedom of Information Act, 1997 (Prescribed Bodies)(no 3) Regulations, 2000’ and that in accordance with Standing Order 79B of Dáil Éireann amd Standing Order 67 of Seanad Eireann, the Clerk to the Joint Committee was asked to convey this message to the Clerk of the Dáil and the Clerk of the Seanad.

7.Any Other Business

The Chairman said that the National Pensions Reserve Bill, 2000 and the National Treasury Management Agency, Bill 2000 had been referred to the Select Committee for Committee stage.

There being no further business, the meeting is adjourned until the 25 October, 2000 at 6:00p.m.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

October, 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 25 OCTOBER 2000

1.The Committee met at 6.10 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present: Deputies Michael Ahern (in the chair), John Browne (Wexford), Ulick Burke, Jimmy Deenihan, Seán Fleming, Michael Noonan, Noel O’Flynn, Seán Ryan and Senators Joe Doyle and Michael Finneran.

Apologies were received from Senators Eddie Bohan and Joe O’Toole.

[Private Session]

3. - 4.The Committee met in Private Session

[Public Session]

5.Discussions with Officials of ICC Bank Plc.

The Chairman welcomed Mr Michael Quinn, Managing Director; Mr Charles Carroll, General Manager-Banking and Mr Martin Thornton, Financial Controller of the ICC Bank to the meeting to discuss the Banks past and current activities and future Plans and indicated that all Members have been circulated with a copy of the Banks Annual Report for 1999.

The Chairman indicated that that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee do not and Members were are reminded of the long standing Parliamentary Practice to the effect that Members should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the House or an official by name or in such a way as to make him/her identifiable.

The Chairman then invited Mr Quinn to address the Committee. Following the presentation by Mr Quinn, there was a general question and answer session.

On behalf of the Committee, the Chairman then thanked Mr Quinn, Mr Carroll and Mr Thornton for attending the meeting.

6.Any Other Business

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 7.12 p.m. sine die.

Michael Ahern T.D.,

Chairman

October, 2000

APPENDIX 7

Work Programme 2001

The Joint Committee, in a structured manner, during 2001, will review specific major areas of policy falling within the remit of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance. As part of that process, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance may be invited to appear before the Committee to outline policy and respond to detailed questions. The Committee will then produce a series of reports containing conclusions and recommendations and lay them before the Houses of the Oireachtas. Where necessary, the Committee will seek also submissions from the public and may, from time to time, engage consultants with particular expertise, to advise and assist it in its work.

The following are the major policy area that the Joint Committee intends reviewing, or commencing work on, during 2001:

1Review of the National Plan

2.Review of the Freedom of Information Act

3.Review of the Proposals for Prevention of Corruption Bill

4.Review of the Stability Programme 1999-2001

5.Review of the Strategic Management Initiative in the Department of Finance

6.Review of European Union Cohesion Fund and Structural Funds

7Review of public service superannuation, pensions and allowances schemes

8.Review of the Central IT Services and Central Consultancy Services carried out by CMOD

9.Review of issues relating to the Y2K problem

10.Review of issues relating to the Pre-Funding of Pensions

The items listed for consideration in the Joint Committee’s work programme are not in any order of priority; the Joint Committee will decide on an overall approach in the light of actual experience. Apart from the above list, it is likely that other relevant issues will arise during the year, which will require the attention of the Joint Committee, and those will be addressed as and when the need arises.

Bodies under the aegis of the Departments

▪Department of the Taoiseach; National Economic and Social Council

▪Department of Finance; Economic and Social Research Institute, Institute of Public Administration

* in substitution for Deputy Jimmy Deenihan

^* in substitution for Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.

^* In substitution for Deputy John Browne(Wexford).

^** In substitution for Deputy Noel O’Flynn

^* In substitution for Senator Eddie Bohan