Committee Reports > List of Committees > Joint > 2000 > Committee on Finance and the Public Service > Annual Report of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, 1999

Introduction

I am pleased to present the second Annual Report of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service.

In May 1999, the Joint Committee agreed and published a report on the Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill. This report, which was drafted by a Sub-Committee within a very tight time-frame, was completed following extensive consultation, which included the examination of the relevant systems in other jurisdictions and consultation with the Dáil and Seanad Select Committees on Members.

In March 1999, the Committee was empowered, by order of the Dáil and Seanad, to be the Committee specified in Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act 1997 and is currently reviewing secrecy provisions in other enactments, as provided for in Section 32(2) of the Act. The Committee is also considering Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill, which were referred by orders of the Dáil and Seanad.

The Committee’s work programme, for 1999, which indicates other areas which are under consideration is appended.

MICHAEL AHERN T.D.,

Chairman

19 January 2000

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

List of Members

Deputy Seán Ryan was appointed in place of Deputy Pat Rabbittee on 24 February, 1999.

Senator Joe Doyle was appointed in Place of Senator Avril Doyle on 4 November 1999.

PRESENTATIONS MADE TO THE JOINT COMMITTEE

Report

BILLS AND ESTIMATES

The Select Committee on Finance and the Public Service considered the following Bills and Estimates during this year:-

WORK OF THE COMMITTEE

1. Joint Committee

The Joint Committee was established by Order of the Dáil and Seanad in November, 1997. From January 1999 to December 1999, the Joint Committee met on 20 occasions, which included two Joint meetings with the Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government and the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs respectively.

In the same period, the Select Committee met on 9 occasions.

1. Joint Committee

Report on Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office

A major committment for the Joint Committee was the Report on the Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office, which were referred to the Committee in July, 1998, by Order of the Dáil and Seanad.

The Committee completed the report, following a process to achieve the widest possible consultation, which included meeting with Chairpersons of Dáil and Seanad Select Committees on Members’ Interests to discuss an overall approach, with a view to avoiding duplication of effort and to make the most effective use of time and resources, consulting with the Public Offices Commission and advertising in national newspapers for submissions from the public. The Committee examined relevant systems in other jurisdictions, and engaged a legal advisor, Mr Eoin McCullough B.L. to assist in the consideration of the proposals.

Drafting of the Committees report was undertaken by the Sub-Committee on the Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill (Deputies Michael Ahern (Chair), Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley and Seantors John Dardis and Joe O’Toole), who completed a comprehensive draft report within a very tight time-frame

The Joint Committee believes that the above strategy allowed the Committee to produce a very comprehensive report.

Work Currently being undertaken.

In March 1999, the Joint Committee was empowered by order of the Dáil and Seanad to review from time to time the secrecy provisions in other enactments, as provided for in Section 32(2) of the Freedom of Information Act. Departmental reports and the views of the Information Commissioner in relation to these reports have been received and these are currently been considered by the Committee.

The Committee is also currently considering Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill, which were referred by orders of the Dáil and Seanad.

Other issues considered by the Committee

Other issues which the Committee have considered during the year include;

i) Policies in relation to external debts of developing countries, including HIPCs.

ii) Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill

iii) the National Development Plan

iv) Report of the Implementation Advisory Group on the Establishment of a Single Regulatory Authority for the Financial Services Sector

During the year, the Committee also met a number of delegations from other countries, including

i) a delegation from the Hungarian Parliamentary Committee on Regional Development,

ii) a delegation from the Committee for Finance and the Public Service of the State of Baden-Wuttemberg

iii) a delegation from the Economic Committee of the Hungarian Parliament,

iv) Mr Takis Clerides, Minister for Finance of Cyprus

These meetings have been very useful in building and developing links between the members of the Committee and fellow Parliamentarians in these countries.

Dáil Select Committee

The Dáil Select Committee met on nine occasions during the year to consider Bills and Estimates relating to the Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance.

Details are at page 16 above.

The official reports of the above were published and printed separately

TRAVEL BY JOINT COMMITTEE

The Joint Committee was represented by the following Members on the occasion of (a) International Conferences or (b) fact-finding visits abroad.

BRUSSELS 18 January 1999

Meeting of the European Parliament’s Subcommittee on Monetary Affairs with Dr Wim F. Duisenberg, President of the European Central Bank

(The Committee was represented by Deputy Michael Ahern).

BRUSSELS 23 February 1999

Meeting of the European Parliament Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs and Inductrial Policy with Representatives of National Parliaments in Brussels

(The Committee was represented by Senator Michael Finneran).

WASHINGTON and ANNAPOLIS 19-23 June 1999

Meetings in Washington and Annapolis - in connection with Joint Committee’s consideration of Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Act and in connection with its review under Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act.

(The Committee was represented by Deputies Michael Ahern, Michael Noonan and Senators Michael Finneran and Eddie Bohan).

BRUSSELS 13 October 1999

Meeting of the European Parliament Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs with Representatives of National Parliaments in Brussels

(The Committee was represented by Deputy Liam Lawlor).

WORK PROGRAMME 1999.

The relevant Orders of Reference and Standing Orders for the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service are set out in the attached Appendices.

Work Programme

The Joint Committee, in a structured manner, during 1999, will review specific major areas of policy falling within the remit of the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance. As part of that process, the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance may be invited to appear before the Committee to outline policy and respond to detailed questions. The Committee will then produce a series of reports containing conclusions and recommendations and lay them before the Houses of the Oireachtas. Where necessary, the Committee will seek also submissions from the public and may, from time to time, engage consultants with particular expertise, to advise and assist it in its work.

The following are the major policy area that the Joint Committee intends reviewing, or commencing work on, during 1999:

1.Review of the National Plan

2.Review of the Freedom of Information Act

3.Review of the Proposals for Prevention of Corruption Bill

4.Review of the Stability Programme 1999-2001

5.Review of the Strategic Management Initiative in the Department of Finance

6.Review of European Union Cohesion Fund and Structural Funds

7.Review of public service superannuation, pensions and allowances schemes

8.Review of the Central IT Services and Central Consultancy Services carried out by CMOD

9.Review of issues relating to the Y2K problem

10.Review of issues relating to the Pre-Funding of Pensions

The items listed for consideration in the Joint Committee’s work programme are not in any order of priority; the Joint Committee will decide on an overall approach in the light of actual experience. Apart from the above list, it is likely that other relevant issues will arise during the year, which will require the attention of the Joint Committee, and those will be addressed as and when the need arises.

Bodies under the aegis of the Departments

•Department of the Taoiseach; National Economic and Social Council

•Department of Finance; Economic and Social Research Institute, Institute of Public Administration

Strategy Statement and the Strategic Management Initiative

The Department of the Taoiseach and the Department of Finance have been requested to furnish the Joint Committee with details relating to strategy statements and SMI reports. The Committee will consider the documents in detail and report annually on the progress made by the Departments in relation to the achievement of aims and objectives in that regard.

Travel

It is likely that issues will arise during 1999, which will require the Joint Committee to be represented at international conferences and/or further inform itself, as part of the input to policy issues under review etc.

Select Committee

Under Paragraph (1) of its Orders of Reference the Select Committee will consider such Bills and Estimates as shall be referred to it by Dáil Éireann from time to time.

Minutes of Meetings

The Proceedings of each meeting, excluding private sessions are attached:

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 27 JANUARY 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 6.05 pm in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley and Batt O’Keeffe.

Senator Eddie Bohan.

3.On the proposal of Deputy Dennehy, in view of the wish of members to attend a debate in the Dáil, it was agreed to adjourn the meeting until Wednesday, 10 February 1999 at 6.00 pm.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 10 FEBRUARY 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 6.00 pm in room G.2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor, Brendan McGahon, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe, Pat Rabbitte and David Stanton.

Senators Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

Senator Avril Doyle extended her apologies.

3.Minutes

The minutes of the previous meeting were approved and signed.

4.Correspondence

The Chairman referred to two letters which had been circulated:

(i)Deputy Noonan requested that the Joint Committee invite the Director of Consumer Affairs to attend the next meeting to discuss the issue of currency conversion charges. Agreed.

(ii)Deputy Jim Mitchell, Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts had written to the Chairman suggesting that the Committee should examine the question of retired public servants taking up appointments or contacts soon after their retirement. The Committee noted that the issue would form part of the overall review of the Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

5.Report on Visit to Canada

In the absence of Deputy Rabbitte, the item was deferred.

6.Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill

The Chairman introduced Mr. Eoin McCullough, B.L., who had been retained by the Committee as consultant in connection with the current review.

The Chairman reminded the meeting the report from the Seanad Committee on Members Interests was confidential.

6.Any Other Business

There being no further business the Joint Committee adjourned until 10 March, 1999. The Select Committee would consider the Committee Stage of the Finance Bill 2 - 4 March 1999.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 10 MARCH 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 6.00 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), John Browne, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor, Batt O’Keeffe, Sean Ryan, David Stanton, Senators Eddie Bohan, Avril Doyle and Frank Chambers *

Senator John Dardis extended his apologies.

* Substitute for Senator Michael Finneran.

3.Sos

Due to a vote in the Dáil, the meeting was suspended from 6:00 p.m. - 6:19 p.m.

4The Chairman welcomed the new Committee Clerk Ms Ita Ní Dhonnchadha and expressed his thanks to Mr Paddy Judge, who had been reassigned as Clerk to the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs. The Chairman also expressed his thanks to Deputy Pat Rabbitte, for his contribution to the Committee and welcomed Deputy Sean Ryan, who was replacing him.

5Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 10 February 1999, were approved and signed.

6Correspondence

The Chairman indicated that he had received a letter from the Hungarian Ambassador, confirming that the Hungarian Parliament’s Committee for Regional Development wished to send a delegation to Ireland to meet with various relevant Committees. It may be possible to meet in joint session with another Committee. It was agreed that the 19-25 April would be a suitable framework and that the Secretariat would follow up with the arrangements.

The Chairman also indicated that the Secretariat had been contacted by the German Embassy, with a view to the Committee meeting a delegation of parliamentarians from Baden-Wurttemberg on the 6 May at 10:30 a.m. It was agreed that the Committee would meet the delegation and that the Secretariat would confirm details with the Embassy.

7.Standards in Public Office Bill

The Chairman welcomed Mr Eoin McCullough, legal advisor, who had supplied a further briefing document which had been circulated to members.

The Chairman indicated that since the last meeting, he had received from Deputy Killeen a copy of the report of the Dáil Select Committee on Members Interests on the Governments Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

The Chairman suggested that, while discussion of the proposals could begin, it might be necessary to have a number of all day sessions to consider in details the Blue Book proposals, the reports completed by the Dáil and Seanad Committees on members interests and other relevant background material, so that the task of considering the proposals could be completed as quickly as possible and the Committees report drawn up, as requested by order of both Houses last July. This was agreed.

Deputy Killeen, Chairman of the Dáil Committee on Members’ Interests was invited to give a brief overview of the report of his Committee. He outlined some of the findings of his Committee’s report, indicating that some of the proposals were based on his Committee’s visit to the New South Wales (Australia) Independent Commission against Corruption. He indicated that it was important that there was a screening process, to deal with vexatious complaints and that the report also outlined a number of Constitutional issues which must be considered.

The Chairman, thanking Deputy Killeen, indicated that the reports findings would be considered in detailed at a later stage.

There followed an exchange of views in relation to the Blue Book proposals and the written advice supplied by Mr McCullough.

Among the views expressed were

1.1 a) the Committee needs to determine who precisely is a “person in public life” and whether it includes members of local authorities, the value of having separate legislation in regard to lobbyists and of using the very clear defination of lobbyist from the Canadian legislation.

1.1 b) the possibility of a cut-off time in relation to when former office holders could have a complaint taken against them, balanced against the value of information which may be held by office holders from a long time previously. Mr McCullough indicated that, while it is not possible to declare something to be an offence to-day and prosecute someone for having carried it out twenty years ago, if the activity was always wrongful, it would not be improper to invent a machinery to deal with it now. In relation to what is wrong, a complaint would be judged by standards of ethics which however remain to be defined.

1.1 c) Financial affairs - Mr McCullough indicated that where a favour was done e.g. for a family member, where the office holder got no financial advantage, this is not dealt with under the current proposals. Where benefit such as a free holiday was received, this should be covered as being part of the person’s financial affairs in the broadest sense.

1.1.d) Mr McCullough indicated that to have the definition of connected persons as wide as it is in the Ethics Act might mean that persons could be investigated who in the true sense had nothing to do with public life and this could raise constitutional difficulties. He indicated that the definition suggested in the report of the Select Committee of Members’ Interests of Seanad Éireann may be more useful.

1.1. e) the need for a mechanism to translate complaints received in a relatively imprecise form into more precise allegations. This could be in the form of the Commission examining the complaint to see if there is a prima facie case to proceed, relative to the hurdle defined in the legislation, if there was, a more precise complaint could be drawn up. This would be similar to the mechanism in use in the Garda Complaints Commission, and the Solicitors and Dental Acts. Without such a sifting mechanism, office holders might discover that a complaint had been lodged against them through the media, before having received any official notification. To protect the good names of those involved, it was important that names should not be published before this sifting mechanism has been gone through.

8.Meeting in Private Session

9.Any Other Business

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned until Wednesday the 24 March.

_________________________

Michael Ahern, T.D.,

Chairman

March 1999

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 24 MARCH 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 3:10pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Michael Noonan, and Senators John Dardis and Joe O’Toole.

3Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 10 March 1999, were approved and signed.

4.Sos

Due to a vote in the Seanad, the meeting was suspended from 3:12 p.m. - 3:25 p.m.

5.Setting up of Sub-Committee on the Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

The Chairman indicated that the following proposal to establish a sub-Committee on Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill had been circulated at the meeting.

The Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service resolve

That -

(a) A sub-Committee (to be called the Sub-Committee on Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill) be established to consider the Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill laid before Dáil Éireann and Seanad Éireann, as referred to the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, by Order of both Houses on 3 July 1998.

(b) the Sub-Committee shall consist of seven members, of whom 5 members shall be members of Dáil Éireann and two shall be members of Seanad Éireann.

(c) the quorum of the Sub-Committee shall be three, of whom at least one shall be a member of Dáil Éireann and one a member of Seanad Éireann.

(d) the sub-Committee shall have all requisite powers of the main Committee, namely, those contained in Standing Order 78A (1), (2) and (4) to (9) (Dáil) and in Standing Order 62A (1), (2) and (4) to (9) (Seanad)¹: provided that the powers to print and publish evidence, to travel and to engage consultants shall, in each case, be subject to the approval of the Joint Committee”.

The resolution was agreed.

It was agreed that membership of the Committee would be as follows;

Deputies Michael Ahern, Denis Foley, Sean Fleming, Michael Noonan and Derek McDowell and Senators John Dardis and Joe O’Toole.

The Chairman said that the Clerk had indicated that the first meeting of the Sub-Committee would be held when Joint Committee meeting was adjourned.

It was agreed that the Sub-Committee would be asked to report back with its conclusions and recommendations by the 28 April 1999.

3.Any Other Business

The Chairman indicated that consideration of proposals for changes to the Prevention of Corruption Act may have been referred to the Joint Committee under the incorrect paragraph of the Committees Orders of Reference. This matter would be taken up with the Dáil and Seanad and the Secretariat will follow up with them in relation to resolving the matter.

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned until 21 April 1999 at 6:00pm.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 21 APRIL 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 4:10pm in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Derek McDowell, David Stanton and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis and Michael Finneran.

3Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 24 March 1999, were approved and signed.

4Correspondence.

It was noted that the members had previously been circulated with details of the referral to the Committee of responsibilities under Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act. These responsibilities relate to the review of the operation of any provisions of any enactment that authorise or require the non-disclosure of a record. This Section requires that Ministers will furnish to the Committee a report in writing in relation to this review and that the Act also allows the Committee to request of the Information Commissioner to produce a report on any matter arising out of the operation of this Section.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would write to the Information Commissioner requesting that he would produce such a report.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would write to the organisers of a half day conference on the Freedom of Information Act, which is taking part in Dublin Castle on Friday the 23 April 1999, asking for a set of the conference papers.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would write to the Minister of Justice, Equality and Law reform, inviting him to appear before the Committee at a mutually suitable time to discuss the Anti Corruption Bill, which has been referred to the Committee.

5.Work Programme 1999.

There was a discussion concerning which new items would be added to the Work Programme. It was agreed that members would forward details of any new items they wished to include on the Work Programme to the Secretariat by Wednesday 5 May 1999 for circulation to all members before the meeting on the 6 May 1999 and that the work programme would be finalised at the meeting on the 6 May.

Any Other Business

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned until 6 May 1999 at 11:00a.m.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT MEETING WITH THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT & LOCAL GOVERNMENT

WEDNESDAY APRIL 21 1999

1.The Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and the Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government met in a joint meeting at 4.30 p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor, Derek McDowell, Brendan McGahon, Michael Noonan, David Stanton, Jackie Healy-Rae, Billy Kelleher and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis, Michael Finneran, Frank Chambers and Joe Doyle

* Apologies from Deputy Alan Dukes and Senators Avril Doyle and Jim Walsh.

The meeting was chaired by Deputy Michael Ahern.

3.Sos

Due to a vote in the Dáil, the meeting was suspended from 4.50 p.m. - 5.05 p.m.

2.Meeting with Delegation from the Parliamentary Committee on Regional Development from the Hungarian Parliament.

The Chairman welcomed Mr Peter Raycsanyi Chairman of the Hungarian Parliamentary Committee on Regional Development, his colleagues from the Committee, H.E. Dr Géza Pálmai, Deputy Head of Mission Mr Imre Láslo and members of staff to the Joint Meeting of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and the Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government. He outlined the responsibilities of both Committees and expressed the hope that the meeting would help to forge closer links between the Hungarian Parliamentary Committee on Regional Development and the committees of the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Mr Raycsanyi made a statement, outlining the function of his Committee in relation to Hungary’s intention to join the European Union.

There followed an exchange of views on issues relating to Regional Development. Among the issues discussed was the importance of putting an infrastructure in place in the rural areas of Hungary, the decisive role small countries can play within the EU and the importance of maintaining their identity, how the accession of countries of similar dimensions to Ireland to the EU will be beneficial for Ireland by the establishment of common economic and cultural contacts, the benefits to Ireland, in developing its economy, of the partnership approach by Government and the social partners and the importance of the investment in education for Irelands economic development. On behalf of the members of the two Committees, the Chairman thanked Mr. Rajcsànyi, and his colleagues, His Excellency Dr. Géza Pálmai and their staff for their attendance. He indicated that the issues discussed were of great interest, that he looked forward to the development of closer links between the parliamentarians of Hungary and Ireland and indicated Irish support in Hungary’s wish to join the EU.

The meeting adjourned at 5.47 p.m. sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 6 MAY 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 11:10am in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, Sean Ryan, David Stanton, and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis and Michael Finneran.

* Apologies from Senators Avril Doyle and Joe O’Toole.

3Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 21 April 1999, were approved and signed.

4Visit of the Finance Committee of the State of Baden-Wurttemberg.

The Chairman welcomed Dr. Dieter Puchta Chairman of the Finance Committee of the State of Baden-Wurttemberg and his colleagues to this meeting of the Joint Committee for Finance and the Public Service. He said he understand the main areas of interest to the delegation were budget and taxation policy, foreign direct investment, EU and national funding measures and the creation of employment.

There followed an exchange of views in relation to Irish economic policies and those of Baden-Wurttemberg.

Following the discussion, the Chairman thanked the delegation for their contribution and hoped the exchange of views was useful to them.

4.Private Session

5.Work Programme 1999

It was agreed that the first item to be considered would be the National Plan. This would be considered in relation to the report produced by the ESRI, and the Department of Finance and the NESC would also be asked to contribute the meeting. The importance of giving priority to items referred to the Committee by the Oireachtas was also agreed.

It was agreed the Secretariat would find out what stage the Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill was at and that discussion of the Work Programme would be continued at the next meeting.

6.Any Other Business

There being a vote in the Dáil, it was agreed to adjourn the meeting at 12:32pm, until Tuesday, 11 May 1999.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE

TUESDAY 11 MAY 1999

1.The Joint Committee met at 2:00p.m in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present::-

Deputies Michael Ahern, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Sean Power **, Michael Noonan, and Senator Michael Finneran..

* Apologies from Deputy Jimmy Deenihan.

** Substitute for Deputy Denis Foley.

2.Private Session

3.Work Programme 1999

It was agreed the Work programme 1999 as amended would be adopted and laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

4.Any Other Business

It was agreed that there would be a joint meeting of the Joint Committee for Finance and the Public Service with the Joint Committee for Foreign Affairs to meet Mr Thomas Bernes and Ms Terrie O’Leary of the IMF and World Bank on the 18 May at 11:00a.m.

The report of the visit, by Deputy Pat Carey and Senator Michael Finneran, to the Round Table of Economic and Monetary and Industrial Policy Committee of the European Parliament with Parliaments of the Member States, was noted.

The meeting was adjourned until the 19 May at 6:00p.m. in G5.

Third Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Tuesday, 18 May 1999

1.The Joint Committee met in Private Session at 11.09 a.m. and in Public Session with the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service at 11.11 a.m.

2.Attendance for Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs

Apologies were received from Deputies Theresa Ahearn, Brendan Smith and Dick Spring and Senators Avril Doyle, Edward Haughey, David Norris and Madeleine Taylor-Quinn.

* Senator Ross substituted for Senator Norris.

Attendance for Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service

JOINT SESSION

3.Discussion on International Monetary Fund and World Bank

The Committee, in joint session with members of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service, met with Mr. Thomas Bernes, Executive Director, International Monetary Fund and Ms. Terrie O’Leary, Executive Director, World Bank.

Both Mr. Bernes and Ms. O’Leary made opening statements and a question and answer session with Members of both Committees followed.

Particular attention was paid to (a) the question of the external debt of developing countries, including HIPCs (heavily indebted poor countries) and (b) the need for the IMF and the World Bank to adopt a more flexible and transparent approach in dealing with member states and the public generally. Mr. Bernes and Ms. O’Leary acknowledged that, in the past, IMF/World Bank policy and implementation of decisions, may have been less than satisfactory, but that a much more progressive approach was now being adopted.

The Members also referred to the need for a Debt Commission and to the necessity for action by the IMF/World Bank to ensure that corrupt regimes would not benefit from the diversion of funds intended for genuine economic development. In that context the Members also expressed concern about the international arms trade, which may be funded from such sources.

4.Adjournment

The joint meeting adjourned at 12.47 pm. sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 19 MAY 1999

1.The Committee met at 6:30pm in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Michael Noonan and David Stanton and Senators Eddie Bohan and Joe O’Toole.

3.Minutes of the previous and other meetings.

The minutes of the joint meeting on the 21 April, of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and the Joint Committee on the Environment and Local Government were agreed. The minutes of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service meetings of the 6 May and 11 May were also agreed.

4.Correspondence

It was noted that the Secretariat had received a number of replies from Departments as required under Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act and that the Information Commissioner had been asked to draw up a report in relation to the reports. It was agreed that copies of the reports received would be circulated to Members, along with the report from the Information Commissioner, when that was received.

It was noted that the Secretariat had received a number of copies of the conference papers of the recent conference on Freedom of Information - One Year On and agreed that members would contact the Secretariat if they wished to receive a copy of the conference papers.

5.Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill

The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Justice, Mr John O’Donoghue and Michael Flahive, Principal Officer in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform to the meeting and he invited the Minister to address the Committee concerning the proposals for a prevention of Corruption Bill. Mr O’Donoghue outlined the main objectives of the proposed legislation.

There followed an exchange of views on the key elements in the proposed legislation.

On conclusion, the Chairman thanked the Minister and Mr Flahive for attending.

6.Private Session

6.Any Other Business

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 7:30p.m. until Thursday 27 May 1999 at 11:00am.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE AND THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

THURSDAY 27 MAY 1999

1The Committee met at 11:10 a.m. in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies John Browne, John Dennehy, Liam Lawlor (Chair), David G. Stanton, and Senator Michael Finneran.

* Apologies from Deputy Michael Ahern and Senator Joe O’Toole.

Meeting in Private Session

3.Any Other Business.

As there was no other business, the meeting was adjourned until Tuesday the 1 June 1999 at 6:00p.m.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

TUESDAY 1 JUNE 1999

1The Committee met at 6:06pm in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, John Browne, John Dennehy, Liam Lawlor, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, David Stanton and Senators Tom Fitzgerald* and Joe O’Toole.

* Substitute for Senator Eddie Bohan

3.Private Session

4.The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Finance, Mr Charlie McCreevy, Second Secretary Mr Noel O’Gorman and their officials to the meeting and he invited the Minister to address the Committee concerning the National Development Plan. Mr McCreevy outlined the background against which the Plan was developed.

There followed an exchange of views on the key issues underlying the Plan. Among the issues discussed were the possibility of including social objectives in the Plan, the need for planning for sustainable growth rates, taking into account the Asian experience, the effect on the economy of our entry into the Euro, the progress which had taken place concerning Private-Public Partnerships and the question of the possible extra cost to the private sector of borrowing money, the need to ensure growth is spread throughout the country and the possible role of regionalisation in this, the level of Capital spending which might be envisaged in the Plan, the need for advanced planning, given the length of the planning process and the importance of integration between the different parts of the Plan.

On conclusion, the Chairman thanked the Minister, Mr O’Gorman and their officials for their attendance.

4.Private Session

5.Any Other Business

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned until Tuesday the 30 June 1999 at 6:00p.m.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 30 JUNE 1999

1The Committee met at 6:15pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor (Chair), Michael Noonan, David G. Stanton, and Senator Frank Chambers*.

* In substitution for Senator Michael Finneran

3.Report of the Information Commissioner under Section 32(5) of the Freedom of Information Act 1997.

It was agreed that the Committee would defer hearing the evidence of the Information Commissioner concerning the report, to another date, given that the meeting was being held in G24, which did not have broadcast facilities, as it was felt that the topic should be discussed at a meeting where there was broadcast facilities.

4.Any Other Business

The meeting was adjourned sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

WEDNESDAY 14 JULY 1999

1The Committee met at 11:15p.m. in Room G5, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern(Chair), Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan,Billy Kellegher * and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis, Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

*In substitution for Deputy John Dennehy

3Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 27 May, 1 June and 30 June 1999 were approved and signed.

4.Correspondence

In relation to the meeting with the Information Commissioner, which was adjourned on the 30 June 1999, at which he intended to address the Committee in relation to an interim report, it was agreed that he would be asked to address the Committee in relation to his final report, after the Summer.

It was agreed that the Clerk would send a reminder to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform concerning its report under to Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act, if the report was not received in the coming week.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would be authorised to send out copies of the Committees Work Programme 1999, in response to any requests for information concerning the work of the Committee.

5.Private Session

6.Any Other Business

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

THURSDAY 7 OCTOBER 1999

1.The Committee met at 11:05a.m. in Room 114, Leinster House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chair), Michael Noonan, John Browne (Wexford), Sean Ryan and Senators John Dardis, Michael Finneran and Tom Fitzgerald*

*In substitution for Senator Avril Doyle

3Private Session

4.Any Other Business.

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned until Wednesday 13 October 1999 at 6:00p.m.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

WEDNESDAY 13 OCTOBER 1999

1The Committee met at 6:05p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, John Browne(Wexford), Jimmy Deenihan, Derek McDowell, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe and David G. Stanton and Senators John Dardis, Michael Finneran, and Joe O’Toole.

3.Private Session

4.On behalf of the Joint Committee, the Chairman welcomed the Governor of the Central Bank, Mr Maurice O’Connell, the Director of Consumer Affairs, Carmel Foley, Mr Tom Considine, Assistant Secretary of the Department of Finance, Mr John Corcoran, Assistant Secretary and their colleagues, to the meeting to discuss the report of the Implementation Advisory Group on the establishment of a single regulatory authority for the Financial Services Sector.

Before inviting the witnesses to make short presentations, the Chairman indicated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, that other persons appearing before the Committee do not.

Following presentations by the witnesses, there was a question and answer session on the views expressed in the presentations and on the report.

At the conclusion of the question and answer session, the Chairman, on behalf of the Committee, thanked Mr O’Connell, Ms Foley, Mr Considine, Mr Corcoran and their officials for their attendance, which had resulted in a very interesting and informative discussion.

5.Any Other Business.

It was noted that Members have been circulated that day with correspondence from the Irish League of Credit Unions and of the Irish Bankers Federation, which was related to the report of the Implementation Advisory Group on the establishment of a single regulatory authority for the Financial Services Sector.

It was also noted that the Committee Secretariat had been notified by Senator Avril Doyle, of her intention to resign from membership of the Committee.

It was agreed that the Information Commissioner would be asked to address the Committee at its next meeting in relation to his views under Section 32 of the Freedom of Information Act.

5.Any Other Business.

As there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 8:30 p.m. sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

WEDNESDAY 3 NOVEMBER 1999

1.The Committee met at 6:10p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley, Liam Lawlor, Derek McDowell, Batt O’Keeffe, Sean Ryan and David G Stanton and Senators Eddie Bohan, Michael Finneran and Joe O’Toole.

Apologies from Deputy Michael Noonan and Senator John Dardis.

2.Private Session

3.Discussion with the Information Commissioner, Mr Kevin Murphy

The Chairman welcomed the Information Commissioner, Mr Kevin Murphy and his colleagues, Mr Gerry Smyth, Senior Investigator and Mr Brian Fee, Investigator to the meeting to discuss Mr Murphys opinions and conclusions concerning reports produced under Section 32(3) of the Freedom of Information Act 199 and offered his apologises to them in relation to the earlier meeting on the 30 June, when Mr Murphy was due to discuss this topic with the Committee, but could not because of the adjournment of the meeting. The Chairman stated that whereas Members of the Houses have privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee did not. The Chairman then invited Mr Murphy to address the Committee after which there was an exchange of views.

The Chairman then thanked Mr Murphy, Mr Smyth and Mr Fee for their attendance, which he indicated would be very useful to the Committee in drawing up its report.

4.Any Other Business.

There bring no further business, the meeting was adjourned until Tuesday 16 November 1999.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

FRIDAY 5 NOVEMBER 1999

1.The Committee met at 11:10a.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputie Liam Lawlor(Chair), Ben Briscoe*, Sean Ardagh**, Pat Rabbitte*** and Senator Eddie Bohan.

* Substituting for Deputy John Dennehy,

** Substituting for Deputy Michael Ahern

*** Substituting for Deputy Derek McDowell

Apologies from Senator John Dardis.

3.Meeting with the Minister for Finance of Cyprus, Mr Takis Clerides

The Chairman welcomed the Minister for Finance of Cyprus, Mr Takis Clerides, the Permanent Secretary of the Planning Bureau Mr Panis Pouros, His Excellancy the Ambassador of Cyprus, Dr. Nicholas Emiliou and the Secretary to the Embassy Mr Nicos Nicolau to the meeting. He invited Mr Clerides to inform the Committee of the status of the negotiations in relation to Cyprus’s application to join the European Union.

Following the presentation by Mr Clerides, there was a general discussion.

The Chairman then thanked Mr Clerides and his colleagues for their attendance and indicated that the Committee would take an ongoing interest in the negotiations of Cyprus and invited the Minister to maintain contact with the Committee.

4.Any Other Business.

There bring no further business, the meeting was adjourned sine die.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE &; THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF THE MEETING

TUESDAY 16 NOVEMBER 1999

2.The Committee met at 12:07p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputis Michael Ahern(Chairman), Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Denis Foley, Derek McDowell, Batt O’Keeffe, David G. Stanton, and Senators Eddie Bohan, John Dardis, Joe Doyle, and Michael Finneran.

[Public Session]

2.Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 3rd November 1999 were agreed and signed.

3.Correspondence

A letter received from the Economic Committee of the Czech Republic, inviting the Committee to visit the Czech Republic and a letter from the Joint Committee on Enterprise and Small Business, with an enclosed letter from Mr Jarda Svejdar were noted.

It was agreed that copies of the letter with enclosure, received from Ms Siobhan Fogarty of St Josephs Centre would be sent to the Minister for Finance, Mr Charlie McCreevy, and the Minister for State at the Department of Health and Children, Mr Frank Fahey, for their consideration. It was also agreed that as childcare was an issue that had been considered by the Sub-Committee on Womens Rights, which is a sub-Committee of the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Womens Rights, the Clerk would send a copy to that Committee also.

It was agreed that Members would contact the Secretariat if they required a copy of the detailed Account for the period 31/03/97 and Balance sheet 31/03/97 which accompanied Ms Fogarty’s letter.

The Chairman welcomed Senator Joe Doyle to the Committee on his appointment to membership of the Committee a as replacement for Senator Avril Doyle.

4.Meeting with Dr. Janos Latorcai and delegation from the Economic Committee of the Hungarian Parliament.

On behalf of the Committee, the Chairman welcomed Dr Janos Latorcai, M.P. Chairman of the Economic Committee of the Hungarian Parliament, his fellow Committee members, Mr Laszlo Zako, M.P. and Mr Peter Fritz M.P, H.E. the Ambassador of Hungary, Dr Géza Pálmai and their colleagues Ms Edith Beczkay and Mrs Kostic.

He indicated that whereas Members of the Houses had privilege in respect of utterances made before the Committee, other persons appearing before the Committee did not.

He then invited Dr Latorcai to address the Committee.

Following the presentation by Dr Latorcai, there was a general question and answer session which included contributions also from Mr Laszlo Zako and Mr Peter Fritz.

On behalf of the Committee, the Chairman then thanked Dr Lactorcai and his colleagues for their visit. He hoped that the visit would be of use to the delegation and that they enjoyed the rest of the visit to Ireland. Dr Lactorai thanked the Committee for meeting the delegation and invited members of the the Committee to visit Hungary.

5Any other business

There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned sine die at 1:17p.m..

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 24 NOVEMBER 1999

3.The Committee met at 6:09p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

3.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern (Chairman), Louis Belton, Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Denis Foley, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe, Seán Ryan David G. Stanton and Senators Eddie Bohan and Labhrás O’Murchú*

*In substitution for Senator Michael Finneran.

2.Minutes of the previous and other meetings.

The minutes of the joint meeting with the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs of the 18 May 1999 and the meetings of the 5 and 16 November 1999 were agreed.

3.Annual Report

It was agreed that Members would contact the Clerk in relation to any particular items which they wished included in the draft annual report whch would be discussed at the next meeting of the Committee.

4Work Programme 2000

It was proposed that a draft workprogramme will be prepared for discussion and agreement at the next meeting. It was agreed that Members would contact Clerk with any items for inclusion in the programme before the 1st December. It was agreed that the NESC would be asked to appear before the Committee when it had produced its next report and that this and a review of the National Plan would be included in the Work Programme 2000.

It was agreed that item 6 would be discussed before item 5.

6Report of the Committee under Section 32(2) of the Freedom of Information Act.

The Committee discussed progressing the report of the Committee in relation to the review of the operation of secrecy provisions in other enactments, under Section 32(2) of the Freedom of Information Act 1997.

The Committee agreed that the Secretariat would draw up a paper, which would outline the provisions outlined in the Departmental reports already received by the Committee and and the opinions and conclusions of the Information Commissioner, Mr Kevin Murphy, who had appeared before the Committee on the 3rd November 1999. It was agreed that this paper would be discussed herwith by the full Committee and that the Committee would then decide whether it was necessary to set up a sub-committee to draw up a draft report or whether this would be done by the full Committee

5.Proposals for a Prevention of Corruption Bill

Following a discussion on the Proposals for a Prevention Bill, it was agreed that a number of questions would be clarified with the Department of Justice.

i) Who was covered by subparagraph (a) (i) in the definition of agent,

ii) Whether or not Semi State bodies were covered by proposed legislation

iii) What penalties were envisaged by the legislation

It was agreed that the Clerk would write to the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform and seek clarification of these issues.

It was agreed that the Proposals would be discussed again at the next meeting of the Committee.

6.Minutes of evidence of meetings

In relation to the publication of the minutes of evidence of Joint Committee meetings, it was proposed that Members would notify the Secretariat in relation to which minutes of evidence they wished to be laid in the library, the Secretariat would prepare these and circulate them to the Committee for agreement by the Committee.

It was agreed that the question of the difference in the way the transcripts of the Select Committee meetings and the Joint Committee meetings were processed would be raised by the Chairman at the next meeting of the Working Group of Chairmen.

4.Any Other Business

It was agreed that the Secretariat would check for the availability of a room for the next meeting of the Committee in the week starting the 11 January 2000.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY 8 DECEMBER 1999

4.The Committee met at 6:20p.m. in Room G2, Kildare House.

2.Attendance:

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern(Chairman), Louis Belton, John Browne(Wexford), Jimmy Deenihan, John Dennehy, Seán Fleming, Pat Carey*, Tony Kileen**, Michael Noonan, Batt O’Keeffe, Seán Ryan and David G. Stanton.

* in substitution for Deputy Denis Foley

** In substitution for Deputy Liam Lawlor

3.Minutes

It was agreed that the minutes of the meeting of the 24 November would be circulated in time for the next meeting.

4.Correspondence

It was agreed that the letter received and circulated from the Department of Justice, Equality and Law reform concerning questions raised in relation to the Proposals for an Anti-Corruption Legislation would be discussed when the Anti-Corruption legislation was being discussed.

4.Private Session

5.Any Other Business.

It was agreed that the next meeting would be held in private. There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned until the 19 January 1999 at 12:00p.m.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE SUB-COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS IN PUBLIC LIFE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 24 MARCH 1999

5.The Sub-Committee held its inaugural meeting at 3:30pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Denis Foley and Senators John Dardis and Joe O’Toole.

3.Election of Chairman:

The Clerk (in the Chair), requested nominations for the election of Chairman of the Joint Committee.

Deputy Michael Ahern, on the proposal of Deputy Foley was nominated and seconded by Deputy Fleming. As there were no other nominations, Deputy Ahern was declared elected and invited to take the Chair.

Deputy Noonan congratulated Mr Ahern on his election as Chairman and asked if the Committee meetings would be in private or Public session. The Chairman said that the meeting would take place in public session, unless the sub-committee decided to go into private session, e.g. to take legal advise from its legal advisor.

4.Engagement of Legal Advisor.

It was agreed that Mr Eoin McCullough, who had been retained as legal advisor to the Joint Committee in relation to the Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill be engaged by this Sub-Committee to act as its advisor, subject to the consent of the Minister of Finance.

5.Consideration of Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

There was an exchange of views concerning the proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

Among the issues discussed were:

i) That in the discussions, that Committee should not debate items already debated by the Dail and Seanad Select Committees on members Interests. However, there was a need to examine each of the proposals in the Blue Book in turn. That when the reports of the Flood and Moriarity tribunals were produced, recommendations made in those reports would have to be incorporated into the legislation, not withstanding these recommendations, the importance of drawing up legislation now.

ii) The inclusion of the rights of public representatives and people in public office in the proposals. That people should not be disadvantaged by their participation, the need for equality in a wide variety of areas. The need for the extension of the right to privacy to public representatives, a clear distinction as to what is in the public interest and what is not.

iii) The difficulty of implementing an unspecified code of conduct, where the ethical requirements are not set down and reliance is placed on Public opinion as to what is ethical. Given these difficulties, the possibility that the sub-committee should draw up a code of conduct or ethics. The possibility that the Commission could draw up the code, the possibility of looking at the code of conduct of the United States senate.

iv) Given that the document does not state the offences which may be transgressed, the problem that people may be caught put in the future for unspecified offences that they will not be told about until they are being investigated.

v) The possibility of including in the first part of the document, ethics and standards to which politicians should adhere in the first place and in the second part of the document, dealing with what would happen if a politician did not comply with those standards, the policing mechanism, complaints procedure etc.

vi) In relation to complaints, the construction of a hierarchy, whereby the commission would first examine complaints that a person had breached the Ethics in Public Office legislation, and then examine and adjudicate on breaches of a code of conduct.

vii) Whether the Commission should be vested in a 3rd party of in a Committee of the House. Other professions regulate their own professions, could politicians not do the same. The public may not be happy with self regulation. In this regard, the possibility of an in-between position, whereby distinguished retired or serving TD’s and Senators would be members of a Commission which would be independent of the House. The importance of including people who have practical experience in politics in the Commission. Perhaps the authorisation of the Committee on Members Interests could be required before a complaint concerning a Member is taken forward or a mechanism whereby the select Committee would receive a complaint, assess it, and would put the prima facie case to the select committee to investigate the complaint.

viii) The need to address the anomaly whereby a member of public would complain to the Commission, whereas a member of the houses would complain to the appropriate Select Committee on Members Interests.

ix) The need for a filtration system to deal with various complaints.

x) The need in the discussions to deal with all those covered by the proposals, e.g. senior civil and public servants. Members are only a fraction of the people who will come under the remit of the commission.

It was agreed that the Secretariat would draw up a draft document, to be reviewed by Mr McCullough, which would show

a) the points of agreement and disagreement between the reports of the Dáil and Seanad Select Committees On Members Interests

b) Other points relating to the Blue Book proposals which have been raised at discussions in the Joint Committee of Finance and the Public Service and Mr Eoin McCullough’s legal advice

c) Other issues not relating to the Blue Book proposals

It was also agreed that Mr McCullough would draw up a draft document outlining the stages in dealing with a complaint, and an outline of the areas that the commission could consider in drawing up a code of conduct.

6.Any other Business

There being no further business, the meeting adjourned until 15 April 1999 at 11:00pm.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE SUB-COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS IN PUBLIC LIFE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE

WEDNESDAY 14 APRIL 1999

6.The Sub-Committee met at 12:00pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Derek McDowell and Senator John Dardis.

* Apologies from Deputy Denis Foley and Senator Joe O’Toole.

Meeting in Private Session

4.Any other Business.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 5:00pm until Thursday 15 April 1999 at 11:00am.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE SUB-COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS IN PUBLIC LIFE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE

THURSDAY 15 APRIL 1999

1.The Sub-Committee met at 11:30pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Derek McDowell and Senator John Dardis.

* Apologies from Deputy Denis Foley and Senator Joe O’Toole.

Meeting in Private Session

4.Any other Business.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 1:00pm until Tuesday 20 April at 4:30pm.

JOINT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE & THE PUBLIC SERVICE

SUB-COMMITTEE ON STANDARDS IN PUBLIC LIFE

PROCEEDINGS OF THE SUB-COMMITTEE

TUESDAY 20 APRIL 1999

1.The Sub-Committee met at 4:30pm in Room G24, Kildare House.

2.Minutes of the previous meeting.

The minutes of the meeting of the 15 April 1999, were approved and signed.

3.Attendance

The following Members were present:-

Deputies Michael Ahern, Denis Foley, Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Derek McDowell and Senator John Dardis.

* Apologies from Senator Joe O’Toole.

Meeting in Private Session

4.Any other Business.

There being no other business, the Committee adjourned at 6:00p.m. until Thursday 29 April at 11:00am.

AN FOCHOISTE MAIDIR LE TOGRAÍ AN RIALTAIS I dTAOBH BILLE UM CHAIGHDEÁIN IN OIFIGÍ POIBLÍ

THE SUB-COMMITTEE ON THE GOVERNMENT PROPOSALS FOR A STANDARDS IN PUBLIC OFFICE BILL

Imeachtaí an Fhochoiste

Proceedings of the Sub-Committee

Déardaoin, 29 Aibreán, 1999

Thursday, 29 April, 1999

1. Chruinnigh an Fochoiste ar 11:00 a.m. i Seomra 114, Teach Laighean.

2. Comhaltaí i láthair:-

Bhí na comhaltaí seo a leanas i láthair:

Na Teachtaí Micheál Ó hEachthairn (i gCeannas), Micheál Ó Nuanáin, Seán Ó Pléamonn, Ruairí Mac Dúghaill, agus an Seanadóir Seosamh Ó Tuathail.

3. Dréacht-Tuarascáil ar Thograí an Rialtais i dtaobh Bille um Chaighdeáin in Oifigí Poiblí.

Tharraing an Cathaoirleach anuas an Dréacht-Tuarascáil lena breithniú. Aontaíodh an Tuarascáil arna leasú.

Ordaíodh: tuairisciú dá réir sin.

4. Chuaigh an Fochoiste ar athló sine die.

1. The Sub-Committee met at 11:00a.m. in Room 114, Leinster House.

2. Members Present.

The following members were present:

Deputies Michael Ahern (in the Chair), Michael Noonan, Sean Fleming, Derek McDowell and Senator Joe O’Toole.

3. Draft Report on Government Proposals for a Standards in Public Office Bill.

The Chairman brought forward the draft report for consideration. The Report as amended was agreed to.

Ordered: to report accordingly

4. The Committee adjourned sine die.