Committee Reports::Annual Report of the Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government, 1998::12 November, 1998::Appendix

Members Present : Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman) Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack, Dinny McGinley (in substitution for Alan Dukes), Olivia Mitchell, Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin, Sean Power and Eoin Ryan; and Senators Peter Callanan (in substitution for Dan Kiely), Joe Doyle, Tom Fitzgerald (in substitution for Frank Chambers) and Brendan Ryan.

The minutes of the second meeting of the Joint Committee on 17 December, 1997, proposed by Deputy Tony Killeen and seconded by Deputy Padraic McCormack, were agreed to.

The vice-Chairman, Deputy Seán Haughey, presented the Report of the Informal Working Group established to consider the draft Work Programme in accordance with the decision of the Committee of 17 December, 1997.

(i)The Work Programme as recommended by the Informal Working Group (see Appendix A) was agreed to. It was also agreed that the first items for consideration by the Committee would be the Review of the Planning Process (item no. 9) followed by those items listed under the heading of Housing and that correspondence in the matter would issue to the Minister for Environment and Local Government.

(ii)The recommendation of the Informal Working Group regarding the initiation of a system for the appointment by Committees of Rapporteurs with a suitable financial allocation was agreed to.

(iii)The recommendation of the Informal Working Group regarding the establishment of two sub-Committees to consider-

(b)a mechanism for monitoring the implementation of “A Strategy for Ireland” (Department of the Environment, 1997) relating to Sustainable Development,

was agreed to. In this regard, it was also agreed that the Informal Working Group would draft proposals regarding the terms of reference, number of members, etc. of these sub-Committees, for consideration at the next meeting of the Committee.

(i)A number of Members of the Committee expressed concern regarding the non-receipt by all Members of the Joint Committee of an invitation to the launch, by the Minister on 12 January, 1998, of the Programme for Funding of Local Authorities entitled “A New Deal for Local Authorities”. The Chairman undertook to advise, in writing, the Minister for the Environment and Local Government of this concern.

(ii)Following a proposal by Deputy Brian Hayes, it was agreed that the consideration by the Committee of a date for the holding of the Referendum of the Amsterdam Treaty be placed on the Agenda for the next meeting of the Committee.

It was agreed that the next meeting of the Joint Committee be held on Wednesday, 28 January, 1998, at 2.30 pm.

Minutes of Fourth Meeting - 28 January, 1998

Members Present Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman) Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes, Brian Hayes, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack, Olivia Mitchell, Sean Power and Eoin Ryan; and Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin.

The minutes of the third meeting of the Joint Committee on 14 January, 1998, proposed by Senator Dan Kiely and seconded by Deputy Tony Killeen, were agreed to.

2.Consultation with Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., Minister for the Environment and Local Government

The Chairman welcomed the Minister to the meeting and thanked him for facilitating the consultation with the Committee. The Minister outlined the policy proposals for his term of Office to the Committee. This was followed by a session of Questions and Answers. The Minister withdrew from the meeting at 4.20 p.m.

The Committee commenced its consideration of item 9 of its Work Programme with a briefing by Mr. John O’Connor, Assistant Secretary, Department of Environment and Local Government, on the Convention on the Irish Planning System-Continuity and Change of 27 November, 1997. A Summary Report on the Convention was also circulated at the meeting. Mr. O’Connor confirmed to the Committee that the Minister would welcome the views of the Committee regarding proposals for the improvement of the planning process.

A number of recommendations for the improvement of the planning process were made. It was agreed that the Clerk to the Committee prepare a draft report of the Committee containing these and any additional recommendations received for consideration at the next meeting of the Committee.

It was agreed that consideration of this item be postponed until the next meeting of the Committee: provided that it be the first item on the Agenda for consideration by the Committee.

It was also agreed that the reply of the Minister for Environment and Local Government to Question 660 of 28 January, 1998 (concerning the National Youth Council of Ireland submission on the case for weekend voting) be circulated to all Members in advance of the next meeting.

It was agreed that consideration of this item be postponed until the next meeting of the Committee.

The Committee had before it for consideration correspondence received from the Danish Parliament together with a statement regarding the necessity of the travel and an estimate of expenditure arising prepared pursuant to Rules 2(b) and (c), respectively, of the (CPP) Rules on Committee Travel.

It was agreed that a three member delegation travel to the Working Meeting to be held on 5 and 6 February, 1998, in Copenhagen and that the names of the delegates be supplied to the Clerk to the Committee by the Whips at the earliest opportunity.

It was agreed that the next meeting of the Joint Committee be held on Wednesday, 18 February, 1998, at 2 p.m.

Minutes of Fifth Meeting - 18 February, 1998

Members Present Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman) Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes, Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack, Olivia Mitchell and Sean Power; and Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin.

The minutes of the fourth meeting of the Joint Committee on 28 January, 1998, were agreed to

The following motion in respect of the forthcoming Referendum on the Amsterdam Treaty was agreed to:

“That the Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government recommends weekend (i.e. Friday, Saturday or Sunday) voting to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government.”

The Committee had before it for consideration a draft submission to Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., Minister for the Environment and Local Government regarding the Review of Planning Legislation (Appendix A). A discussion took place on the contents of this document and both additional and alternative recommendations were made.

(i)a submission regarding the review of planning legislation be made to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government,

(ii)An Bord Pleanála be invited to attend the next meeting of the Committee to discuss the planning appeals process,

(iii)any further observations in relation to the draft submission be made to the Clerk to the Committee by 25 February, 1998, and

(iv)further consideration of the draft submission be postponed until after the meeting with An Bord Pleanála.

The Terms of Reference of the sub-Committee on Sustainable Development and the sub-Committee on Local Government Reform (Appendix B) were agreed to. It was also agreed that the appointment of Members to these sub-Committees be referred to the Informal Working Group.

The Committee considered Correspondence from Mr. John Gormley, T.D., regarding a conference on eco-efficiency scheduled to be held in Dusseldorf, Germany, on 2 and 3 March, 1998, and agreed that a delegation from the Committee should not travel to this Conference

Senator Kiely raised the issue of resources available to the Committee for the purpose of travel and requested that the Chairman pursue the matter with Mr. Charlie Mc Creevy, T.D., Minister for Finance.

It was agreed that the next meeting of the Joint Committee be held on Wednesday, 4 March, 1998, at 2 p.m.

Minutes of Sixth Meeting - 4 March, 1998

Members Present Deputies Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman), Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack and Olivia Mitchell, and Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputy Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman) and the Committee agreed that the best wishes of all Members of the Committee be conveyed to the Chairman.

The minutes of the fifth meeting of the Joint Committee on 18 February, 1998, were agreed to

The Committee heard evidence from Mr. Paddy O’Duffy (Chairman) and Dr. Ann Quinn (Deputy Chairman) of An Bord Pleanála regarding various aspects of the planning process. In the course of the discussion Mr. O’Duffy advised that An Bord Pleanála had made a submission to Mr. Noel Dempsey, T.D., Minister for the Environment and Local Government, regarding the Review of Planning Legislation. It was agreed that a copy of the said submission be requested from the Minister.

It was agreed that the next meeting of the Joint Committee be held on Wednesday, 1 April, 1998, at 2 p.m.

Minutes of Seventh Meeting - 1 April, 1998

Members Present Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman), Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes, Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack, Olivia Mitchell and Eoin Ryan, and Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Fergal Quinn (in substitution for Brendan Ryan)and Jim Walsh.

The minutes of the sixth meeting of the Joint Committee on 4 March, 1998, were agreed to

(a)The Committee had before it for consideration a draft submission(see Appendix A) to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government regarding the Review of Planning Legislation. The Chairman advised the Committee that it had no power to make a submission directly to the Minister in this or any other matter and that the Terms of Reference of the Committee empowered the Committee only to consider specified matters and report theron to both Houses of the Oireachtas.

It was agreed that the draft submission be incorporated in a draft Report for adoption by the Committee at its next meeting. It was further agreed that the Chairman request that the Terms of Reference of the Committee be amended to enable the Committee to make a submission directly to the Minister particularly in circumstances where the Committee had been so invited by the Minister.

(b)The Committee proceeded to consider the list of recommendations contained in the draft submission at paragraph 3 and agree those for inclusion in the draft Report.

(ii)it was agreed that further consideration of paragraph 3.3 be deferred and the first sentence redrafted by the Clerk to the Committee;

“3.4.2 The role of elected representatives in making representations in connection with an appeal to An Bord Pleanála be given due consideration and the fee payable waived.”;

Acceptance of this paragraph, as amended, involved the deletion of paragraph 3.8.5

It was agreed that the next meeting of the Joint Committee be held on Wednesday, 29 April, 1998, at 2 p.m.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday 29 April, 1998

The following members were present Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey (vice-Chairman), Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack and Olivia Mitchell; and Senators Frank Chambers and Jim Walsh.

Apologies from Deputies Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes: and Senators Dan Kiely and Brendan Ryan.

(i)Staffing: The Chairman indicated that he was pressing for the immediate appointment of a full-time Clerk, following the departure of Ms. Michelle Grant to Brussels. He would keep the members informed of developments.

(ii)Orders of Reference: The Chairman confirmed that he had written to the Chairman of the Working Group of Committee Chairmen seeking his support and action in relation to proposed change in the Committee’s Orders of Reference.

(iii)Meeting in the U.N.:- The Chairman indicated that four members were attending the High Level Segment of the Sixth Session of the Commission on Sustainable Development of the United Nations in New York, 29 April to 1 May. A report of that meeting would be brought before the Committee shortly.

The Committee resumed consideration of a draft submission to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government regarding the review of Planning Legislation.

The Committee proceeded to consider the list of recommendations contained in the draft submission, commencing at paragraph 3.3, and agree those for inclusion in the Draft Report.

“3.3 the powers of local authorities in ensuring that the planning laws are complied with need to be considerably strengthened, in particular to ensure that the law in relation to retention orders is not abused. There are insufficient resources available to local authorities to enable them to exercise their powers of enforcement. Therefore, adequate resources, human and financial, must be made available as soon as possible”

“3.4.4 Where An Bord Pleanála considers an appeal in respect of the refusal of planning permission by a planning authority to make a material contravention of a development plan, An Bord Pleanála should be obliged to go through the same procedure as required by a planning authority under section 26 of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, notwithstanding section 14(8) of the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1976.”

“3.4.8- A statutory time limit for determination of appeals to An Bórd Pleanála should be considered”.

Planning officials would be obliged to meet with interested parties after a planning application has been made, when requested.”

“3.7.1- The issue of greater participation by the public in the planning process must be addressed by the use of up to date communication methods. All local aurhorities have an important role to play in the process.”

“3.8.4 In re-designating land (e.g. along the western seaboard), the cause of immigrants who may wish to return to re-establish homes should be considered sympathetically.”

“3.8.5 The necessity to provide for an adequate number of secure truck stops on all national primary and national secondary road routes should be taken into account by the relevant planning authorities”.

(xvi)The Joint Committee agreed that, following publication of the report, a copy should be forwarded to the Minister for the Environment and Local Government for his information and attention.

(i)Rapporteurs: The Chairman informed the meeting of the allowance allocated to Committee Chairmen for work to be undertaken by rapporteurs - to be discussed further at the next meeting.

(ii)The Committee agreed to attend a tran-European conference on the Environment in Arhus, Denmark, following receipt of an invitation - to be discussed further.

(iii)It was also agreed to invite with (a) Focus Ireland and (b) Dr. Peter Bacon to discuss housing and homelessness at the next Committee meeting.

There being no further business the Committee adjourned at 2.55p.m. until Wednesday 13th May 1998.

Wednesday, 13 May 1998

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae(Chairman), Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes, Sean Haughey, Brian Hayes, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen and Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle and Fergal Quinn*

Apologies for inability to attend were received from Deputies Brendan Howlin and Eoin Ryan and Senators Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

(i)The Chairman reported that the Committees report on the “Review of Planning Legislation” had been finalised and laid before both Houses. A copy of the report had also been sent to the Minister for the Environment & Local Government for his attention.

(ii)Deputy Noel Ahern made a brief interim report on the Committee’s delegation visit to New York for the Sixth Session on Sustainable Development at the United Nations, 29 April-1 May 1998 A more comprehensive report would be presented later.

(i)The Committee agreed to participate at the 10th European Conference for Biomass in Wurzburg in Germany, 8-11 June. Two nominations would be provided as soon as possible.

(ii)It was also agreed to send a delegation of three Members to a Parliamentarians Conference in ARHUS. Denmark, 21-22 June.

The Chairman welcomed Sister Stanislaus Kennedy, President and Mr Michael Bruton, Chief Executive, Focus Ireland to the meeting. A copy of the Focus Ireland submission on homelessness in Ireland had been circulated. After a short opening statement by Sister Stanislaus there followed a general exchange of views on the problem of homelessness and the role of Focus Ireland in that context. It was contended that (a) the problem was almost out of control and (b) there was an urgent need for a single agency or Department to deal with homelessness. There was also an urgent need for a proactive programme of building to meet the increasing demand by homeless people, mainly single. There was also an increase in the problem of family breakup.

Sister Stanislaus also referred to concerns in the area of housing for asylum seekers - there appeared to be no overall coordinated approach to the problem.

The Chairman thanked Sister Stanislaus and Mr. Bruton for their contribution to the discussion.

(i)Rapporteurs: The Chairman outlined the details of the arrangements for work being undertaken by rapporteurs on behalf of the Committee.

(iii)Strategy statements: The Departmental strategy statements to be included in the work programme.

(iv)The Select Committee would shortly consider the Departmental Estimates and the Committee stage of the Local Government Bill, 1998 and the Traveller Accommodation Bill, 1998.

Wednesday, 15 July 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

1.The Committee met at 12.00 noon to 1.35 p.m. in Private Session and at 1.35p.m. in Public Session.

Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Noel Ahern, Deirdre Clune, Alan Dukes, Sean Haughey, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic Mc Cormack, Olivia Mitchell and Eoin Ryan. Senators Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

Apologies were received from Deputy Caoimhghin Ó Caoláin and Senator Frank Chambers.

The following representatives of the General Council of County Councils attended the Meeting;-

The Representatives made an oral presentation and presented a written submission to the Members. This was followed by a question and answer session.

Wednesday, 23 September, 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Noel Ahern, Alan Dukes, Sean Haughey, Brian Hayes, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Olivia Mitchell and Eoin Ryan. Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely and Brendan Ryan.

(1) The Minister for the Environment and Local Government wrote to the Chairman inviting Members of the Committee to attend a conference in the Hotel Europe in Killarney on Monday, 12 October, on the Environmental Benefits of Cohesion Fund Investment in Ireland.

The conference details, which had been circulated, indicated that the topics to be discussed fell within the Committee’s remit and the travel guidelines. It was agreed that three Members should attend the conference.

It was also agreed that the Chairman should ask the Chairman of the Working Group of Chairmen, Deputy Ben Briscoe, for the additional funds required.

An invitation has been received and circulated to Members about attendance by Globe participants to attend a meeting during the 4th Conference of the Parties to the Climate Change Convention in Buenos Aires, South America, in November. This was an area that fell within the remit of the Committee and also the travel guidelines.

The estimated cost would be about £3250 per person, travelling business class or £1400 travelling economy class.

The Chairman was requested to seek additional funds from the Working Group of Chairmen.

It was agreed at the meeting on 15 July to send a delegation of three Members to the Convention in Florence. The Chairman asked for confirmation of names at an early date.

(i) The Department of the Environment 1997 Annual Report and Accounts of the National Building Agency were noted.

Item 3 Report on GLOBE Conference (held in the USA on 23-26 August). Deputy Olivia Mitchell reported to the Committee.

The Chairman thanked the delegation for attending the conference on behalf of the Committee.

Members were reminded that the Committee agreed some time ago to set up two Sub-Committees of seven Members each on

The Chairman asked the Sub-Committees to hold their first meeting as soon as possible. The membership of both sub-Committees, as circulated, was agreed.

The Joint Committee heard a presentation from the Secretary General, Mr. Jimmy Farrelly, Assistant Secretaries, Mr. John Cullen, Mr. Niall Callan, Ms. Geraldine Tallon. Mr. John O’Connor, Mr. Tom O’Mahony and Mr. Tom Corcoran. Principal Officer of the Department of Environment and Local Government in connection with the Strategy Statement of that Department. It was agreed that the various items dealt with in the Strategy Statement would be tracked by the Committee and returned to at a later date. It was agreed that a short report on the Strategy Statement would be laid before the Houses.

Wednesday, 21 October, 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey, Billy Kelleher. Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack. Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

3.The minutes of the previous meeting were agreed by the Committee and signed by the Chairman.

-the Committee should decide whether proposed events etc, should be attended, and how many should represent the Committee,

-when decisions are taken on who will represent the Committee, the Government Whip will communicate with interested Government Members and the Opposition Whip with Opposition Members.

A letter from the Chairman of the Joint Committee on Family, Community and Social Affairs, requesting a joint meeting to discuss housing issues, was considered by the Committee:- the committee agreed to the request.

The Committee also considered a letter from Padraic McCormack, T.D., Opposition Whip to the Committee, conveying and supporting a request from Brian Hayes T.D., for appointment to the Sub-Committee on Local Government Reform. This was agreed.

-the Committee’s Report to the Dail and Seanad on the Strategy Statement of the Department of Environment and Local Government.

7.It was agreed that funds be sought from the Working Group of Committee Chairmen for:-

-the expenditure by the Sub-Committee on Local Government Reform of £5,000; and

-the expenditure by the Sub-Committee on Sustainable Development of between £5,000 and £10,000

-the current situation in the housing market should be considered at the Committee’s next meeting. In this context, Members stressed the need for targeted investment, including possible reconstruction grants, although the consensus was that any such grants should be means tested. It was also agreed that the author of the Bacon Report be invited to make a presentation to the Committee under this item.

-it was agreed that subsequent meetings could consider the Road Safety situation, and the situation regarding Road infrastructure.

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER, 1998.

1.The Joint Committee met in Joint Session with the Joint Committee on Family, Community and Social Affairs in room G2 at 5.00p.m.

Deputies Noel Ahern (in the Chair), John Brady, Matt Brennan, John Browne (Carlow/Kilkenny), Deirdre Clune, Seymour Crawford, Proinsias de Rossa, Alan Dukes, Bernard Durkan, Denis Foley, Seán Haughey, Brian Hayes, Jackie Healy-Rae, Brendan Howlin, Billy Kelleher, Paul McGrath, Olivia Mitchell, John Moloney, Breeda Moynihan-Cronin, Jim O’Keeffe, Sean Power, Eoin Ryan and Eddie Wade.

Senators Frank Chambers, Joe Costello, Joe Doyle, Dan Kiely, Ann Leonard, Don Lydon, Therese Ridge, Brendan Ryan and Jim Walsh.

3.Presentation by the Department of Environment and Local and Government, and Dr Peter Bacon on the Housing Market.

The Chairman welcomed Messrs Sean O Leary and Tom Corcoran and Ms Anne Mc Guinness of the Department of Environment and Local Government and Dr Peter Bacon of Peter Bacon and Associates.

There then followed a presentation by the officials from the Department of the Environment and Local Government on the general housing situation in Ireland and a presentation by Dr Peter Bacon on his recent study of the housing price situation in Dublin.

Mr Briain Ó Raghaillaigh of the Department of Social, Community and Family Affairs took part in the question and answer session focusing particularly on Social Welfare issues arising in the housing context.

There being no further business the Committee adjourned at 5.10 p.m., sine die.

Wednesday. 18 November. 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Deputies Jackie Healy-Rae (Chairman), Seán Haughey, Billy Kelleher, Tony Killeen, Padraic McCormack.

4.The minutes of the 21 October and of the Joint meeting with the Joint Committee on Family, Community and Family Affairs on 4 November, 1998 were approved.

5.The draft Annual Report for the Committee was agreed:-it can now be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas, and copied to the committee on Procedure and Privileges.

6.The Committee heard a presentation from Mr. Niall Callan, Assistant Secretary, Roads Division, Department of the Environment, on the Government’s Strategy on Road Safety. This was followed by a Question and Answer session, in which Mr. Callan was assisted by Joe Long, Assistant Commissioner, and John O’Brien, Chief Superintendent, of An Garda Síochana, Pat Costello, Chief Executive of the National Safety Council, Pauline Leavy, Deputy Director of the Medical Bureau of Road Safety, and Finbarr Crowley of the National Roads Authority.

7.It was agreed to accept an invitation from the Joint Committee on Family. Community and Social Affairs to join with that Committee on 1st December, when the CPSU/SIPTU would be invited to present their Report on “Affordable Accommodation”.

8.It was also agreed that, after the Joint Meeting, the next meeting of the Committee would consider the situation regarding Ireland’s Road Network (Item 21 of Committee’s Work Programme).

APPENDIX I

Minutes for Joint Committee of Environment and Local Government from the 3rd December to 18 November 1998.

Joint Committee on Environment and Local Government

Minutes of Third Meeting - 14 January, 1998

Minutes of Fourth Meeting - 28 January, 1998

Minutes of Fifth Meeting - 18 February, 1998

Minutes of Sixth Meeting - 4 March, 1998

Minutes of Seventh Meeting - 1 April, 1998

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday 29 April, 1998

Wednesday, 13 May 1998

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday, 15 July 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday, 23 September, 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

Wednesday, 21 October, 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee

MINUTES OF PROCEEDINGS

WEDNESDAY, 4 NOVEMBER, 1998.

Wednesday. 18 November. 1998.

Proceedings of the Joint Committee