Committee Reports::Report - Consolidation Bills on the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Bill, 1980::18 December, 1980::MIONTUAIRISC NA FINNEACHTA / Minutes of Evidence


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MIONTUAIRISCÍ NA FIANAISE

(MINUTES OF EVIDENCE)

Déardaoin, 18 Nollaig, 1980

Thursday, 18th December, 1980

The Committee met at 11.30 a.m.

Members Present:
Dr. Woods (Minister for Social Welfare)		Senator	Harney
Deputy	Callanan	„	Hillery
Senator	Donnelly	„	Kitt

DEPUTY O’KEEFFE in the chair

Mr. P. Thornton (Director, Statute Law Reform and Consolidation Office) called and examined.

1. Chairman.—Mr. Thornton, the Committee in considering section 298 has decided to seek your advice on whether the position referred to in subsection (6) that certain decisions of an appeals officer are final and conclusive is affected by the Ombudsman Act, 1980 which cites appeal officers under the Social Welfare Acts as being subject to investigation by the Ombudsman.

Mr. Thornton.—We have consolidated the social welfare laws as they stand, and if there was specific amendment of any provision of the social welfare code we would have to bring that in. We considered this sort of amendment and because this is a general, sweeping statement in the Ombudsman Act—which may not be in force yet—we would not make a change and take out those words. I do not think that Act is in force yet.

Dr. Woods.—No, it is to come into force at a future date.

Chairman.—I appreciate that under section 12, the Ombudsman Act comes into force when an order is made——

Mr. Thornton.—That is so.

Chairman.—That could be brought into force by Government order tomorrow?

Mr. Thornton.—Yes.

Chairman.—Before our Bill.

Dr. Woods.—That is most unlikely from what I understand of the present situation.

Mr. Thornton.—Our position is that we only take note of specific changes in the social welfare code. We do not take note of a general provision like that. We leave the law as it is and that general provision will override it. Nevertheless we leave it there and we change nothing. We do not change the status quo between the code and the Ombudsman Act.

Chairman.—If the order bringing the Ombudsman Act into effect was made prior to the consolidation Bill——

Mr. Thornton.—That would be immaterial. We only note specific amendments. We leave the position exactly as it is. If we were not consolidating the social welfare code and the Ombudsman Act was passed and in force, we would have to leave the position exactly as it should be then.

Chairman.—I will leave the drafting to the experts, but would it not be more correct to put in this section “subject to the provisions of the Ombudsman Act.”

Mr. Thornton.—No. We have to leave the situation exactly as it is and can only note specific amendments. We cannot change the status quo between the present situation under the Social Welfare code and the Ombudsman Act if it were in force.

Chairman.—You are satisfied that is correct?

Mr. Thornton.—Yes. We leave the position as it is and note only specific amendments.

Dr. Woods.—I am satisfied with that. I can see where it would override. It is not part of the the social welfare legislation but separate legislation which, when it comes into force, must be taken into consideration and would provide an alternative remedy.

Chairman.—We will have to rely on expert advice.

The witness withdrew.

Mr. P. Thornton recalled and further examined.

2. Chairman.—You have examined the Bill, apart from preparing it, and you have examined all the amendments submitted and passed by the Committee?

Mr. Thornton.—Yes.

Chairman.—Are you satisfied that the Bill, as amended by the Committee, represents the present statute law?

Mr. Thornton.—I am so satisfied.

Chairman.—Any member of the Committee is entitled now to put any question he wants to the witness. Would you like to comment in more detail about the amendments in particular?

Mr. Thornton.—No, the amendments are slight, simple amendments and do not require any comment.

Chairman.—You are happy to accept the amendments being proposed as being quite proper in the context of a Consolidation Bill?

Mr. Thornton.—Yes.

Chairman.—Finally, perhaps you would explain, for the record, your position and function.

Mr. Thornton.—I am the Director of the Statute Law Reform and Consolidation Office and drafted the Bill before the committee. I am satisfied that the amendments made by the Committee to the Bill are within the scope of the Bill and that the certificate of the Attorney General remains valid.

The witness withdrew.