Committee Reports > List of Committees > Dáil > 1975 > Committee on Procedure and Privileges > Report - Allegations made by two Members against the Minister for Local Government in the Dáil

IMEACHTAÍ AN CHOISTE

Proceedings of the Committee

Déardaoin, 3 Iúil, 1975.

Thursday, 3rd July, 1975.

1. The Fourteenth meeting of the Committee took place at 11.30 a.m. in Room 91.

2. The following Members were present:—

The Ceann Comhairle (Chairman), Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputies Andrews, Carter, Barry Desmond, Gene Fitzgerald, Harte, Lalor, L’Estrange, Fergus O’Brien, John O’Leary, John J. Ryan, Timmins and Wyse.

3. Privilege (Allegations made by two Members against the Minister for Local Government).

The Committee resumed consideration of the allegations made by Deputies Crinion and Molloy against the Minister for Local Government. It was informed by Deputy Lalor that Deputy Crinion had intimated that he would not be in a position to appear before the Committee at 11.30 a.m. because of the necessity to attend hospital for treatment at that time. He would, however, make himself available to the Committee in the afternoon, if required.

Motion made (Deputy Desmond):

“That, noting that Deputy Crinion is unable to be present now, the Committee proceed to interview the Minister for Local Government and Deputy Molloy in the absence of Deputy Crinion.”

Amendment proposed (Deputy Andrews):

To delete all words after “That” and substitute:

“the Committee interview the witnesses in the presence of each other at all times”.

Question:—“That the words proposed to be deleted stand part of the main Question”—put: the Committee divided: For 7; Against 6.

For:—Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputies Barry Desmond, Harte, L’Estrange, Fergus O’Brien, John J. Ryan and Timmins.

Against:—Deputies Andrews, Carter, Gene Fitzgerald, Lalor, John O’Leary and Wyse.

The Question was declared carried accordingly.

Main Question put: the Committee divided: For 7; Against 6.

For:—Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputies Barry Desmond, Harte, L’Estrange, Fergus O’Brien, John J. Ryan and Timmins.

Against:—Deputies Andrews, Carter, Gene Fitzgerald, Lalor, John O’Leary and Wyse.

The Question was declared carried accordingly.

The Committee was shown a telegram received by the Ceann Comhairle from the legal representatives of a builder.

The Minister for Local Government and Deputy Molloy appeared before the Committee.

Deputy Molloy stated that he wished to make a statement but before doing so he required to know whether utterances in the Committee were privileged in the same way as utterances in the Dáil. The Ceann Comhairle stated that there was doubt as to whether the Constitutional privilege attaching to proceedings in the House extended to Committees of the House. He referred to the case of the Committee of Public Accounts Special Inquiry into the Grant-in-Aid for Northern Ireland Relief and stated that because of doubt regarding the privilege attaching to that Committee, it had been found necessary to enact legislation prescribing the privileges and immunities applicable to members of the Committee and to witnesses and documents. Deputy Molloy stated that he had been under the impression that the proceedings of the Committee were privileged and had intended to make a statement. However, in view of the fact that there appeared to be doubt as to whether utterances in the Committee were privileged he proposed to say nothing further.

The Minister for Local Government categorically denied the allegations made by Deputies Crinion and Molloy, and stated that he would be glad to have a police investigation of the matter. He had sought legal advice from the Attorney General on this course of action but he had been advised that, as the allegations did not involve criminal charges, the Gardaí could not be involved.

The Minister for Local Government and Deputy Molloy then withdrew from the meeting.

Ordered: That Deputy Crinion be invited to appear before the Committee at 3.30 p.m. to-day to discuss the allegations and that the Minister for Local Government and Deputy Molloy be also invited to attend at that time.

4. Sitting Suspended.

The Sitting was suspended at 1.30 p.m. until 3.30 p.m. to-day.

5. The Committee met again at 3.30 p.m.

6. The following Members were present:—

The Ceann Comhairle (Chairman), Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach, Deputies Andrews, Carter, Barry Desmond, Esmonde, Gene Fitzgerald, Lalor, L’Estrange, Fergus O’Brien, John O’Leary, John J. Ryan, Timmins and Wyse.

7. Privilege (Allegations made by two Members against the Minister for Local Government).

The Committee resumed consideration of the allegations made by Deputies Crinion and Molloy against the Minister for Local Government.

The Minister for Local Government and Deputies Crinion and Molloy appeared before the Committee. Deputy Crinion asked whether the proceedings of the Committee were privileged in the same way as proceedings in the Dáil. On being informed by the Ceann Comhairle that there was doubt as to the privilege attaching to the Committee, Deputy Crinion stated that he did not propose to make any statement.

The Minister for Local Government and Deputies Crinion and Molloy then withdrew from the meeting.

A Draft Report was read by the Chairman:—

Paragraphs 1 to 7 inclusive, agreed to.

Draft Report agreed to.

Ordered: To report accordingly.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach and Deputy Lalor on behalf of the Committee expressed appreciation of the efficiency and impartiality with which the business had been handled by the Chairman and his staff.

8. The Committee adjourned at 5.15 p.m.