Committee Reports > List of Committees > Dáil > 1950 > Committee of Public Accounts > Report - Appropriation Accounts 1948 - 1949

MIONTUAIRISC NA FINNEACHTA

(Minutes of Evidence)

Dé Céadaoin 6ú Nollaig, 1950.

Wednesday, 6th December, 1950.

The Committee sat at 11 a.m.

Mr. W. E. Wann (An tArd-Reachtaire C untas agus Ciste), and Mr. M. Breathnach (An Roinn Airgeadais) called and examined.

VOTE 42—GENERAL REGISTER OFFICE.

Mr. P. Kennedy called and examined.

480. Deputy Briscoe.—The only comment I have to make is that this seems to be the most accurately estimated estimate that I have ever seen. In regard to subhead E—Appropriations in Aid— the estimate was £11,000 and the amount realised was £11,098.

Chairman.—The exact number of people were born, died, and were married that you anticipated.

Deputy Commons.—That was very good.

Mr. Kennedy.—Very farseeing.

481. Chairman.—There was extra remuneration under subhead A—Salaries, Wages and Allowances. I think, in the circumstances, we can afford to be lenient about this, Deputy Briscoe.

Deputy Briscoe.—I have in mind that. the Comptroller and Auditor-General usually brings to our notice where there was not care taken in the making of estimates. Sometimes there are cases of excessive expenditure or of a substantiai amount to be returned to the Exchequer, and Departments ought to try as far as possible to be accurate. This is one case where I think we should note that the estimate has been carefully made.

Chairman.—And very accurate.

482. Deputy Sheldon.—Not only that, but Mr. Kennedy’s note in regard to subhead A, that the extra expenditure was because of the increases in remuneration in the Civil Service, gives us the exact figure and does not merely explain the amount that has to be allocated from the Civil Service Vote.

VOTE 68—HEALTH.

Mr. P. Kennedy further examined.

483. Chairman.—In regard to the note on subhead B—Travelling Expenses— which reads, “curtailment of travelling due to pressure of headquarters duties,”— could you give us any further information about that, Mr. Kennedy?—The Department at that time was really only in its formative stage. At the time this estimate was prepared, towards the end of 1947, the Department had been in existence only about nine months and it was very difficult to forecast then to what extent the subhead would be drawn on. We thought we would have more travelling, but in fact a very big number of technical officers had to be kept at headquarters to assist in the work of drawing up the programme of the Department for the following year and the years following that.

What would the travelling expenses amount to, do you think, during the succeeding year or what do you think the normal figure would be in so far as it could be described as normal?—About £5,000. There was a number of vacancies also that year. The travelling staff was not fully appointed.

484. There is no explanation given in regard to subhead E—Expenses in connection with International and other Congresses. What does it cover, Mr. Kennedy? There was a supplementary estimate, I see?—Yes, there was. It covers our subscription to the World Health Organisation and the cost of delegates to the meeting of that organisation and to certain other international organisations. The subscription to the World Health Organisation in that year was £4,132. There was also a delegation to that body which cost £251. We also had to send a delegate to the Food and Agriculture Organisation. That organisation is primarily the concern of the Department of Agriculture, but one of our medical officers went as nutrition expert, at a cost of £221. There were also two international congresses on mental health at which we were represented the total cost being £95.

485. Is there a report of the World Health Organisation?—Yes. All those documents are published regularly.

486. Is the World Health Organisation an annual affair?—Yes. It is a sub-agency of the United Nations. We are not a member of the United Nations, but we are a full member of the World Health Organisation.

487. I notice, in regard to subhead F.1 —Statutory Inquiries—that no major inquiry was held during the year?—No. This provision is quite problematical. It is impossible to forecast how many of these inquiries we will have during a year.

488. What number of inquiries would the £500 estimated be expected to cover? —It is almost impossible to answer that question. One big inquiry might swallow the whole of it. A smaller inquiry might cost only about £10. They vary immensely. On the average, I suppose it would cover up to about a dozen inquiries of a smaller type in the year.

489. In regard to subhead F.2— Expenses in connection with the National Health Council, etc.—it was not found necessary to convene the National Health Council during the year?—The National Health Council did not meet, but there were meetings of a number of smaller consultative councils, which were set up in connection with tuberculosis, mother and child welfare, cancer and so on.

490. Are they subordinate to the main? —No, they are not related to it at all. They are quite independent. The National Health Council is the one that costs the most money, when convened. The members are scattered all over the country.

491. How often does it meet?—There is no fixed period. It meets on any occasion that the Minister calls it together.

492. I notice there was a supplementary estimate with regard to subhead F.3— Dissemination of Information and Advice on Health?—Yes. The original provision was nil. Then it was decided to appoint a publicity officer to the Department and to undertake a fairly extensive campaign of advice and information on health matters. We did not get going as quickly as we thought we would. It took us longer to devise newspaper advertisements and to get posters and pamphlets printed than we expected. There was consequently a saving.

493. Is not advertisement by way of posters a very costly form of propaganda? —It is costly, Mr. Chairman, but it is held, I think, by people who are in a position to advise on the matter that it is effective.

494. Deputy Briscoe.—Was the poster, “Murder that Fly”?—“Wanted for Murder”, was one of them; another was “You Can’t Afford to Gamble with T.B.”.

Chairman.—The weather seems to have co-operated with you, this year?—Yes.

495. In respect of subhead G.3— Expenses in connection with a Survey of Human Nutrition—is the work completed now, Mr. Kennedy?—What might be described as the field work and clinical work are completed. There is a certain amount of work to be done in the Department, assessing the clinical end of the work, which has not been finished. All the material is there and the work is being carried out in the Department.

Was it carried out entirely by the Department?—It was. There was a special staff recruited for it. They have all been dispensed with now.

496. In regard to subhead I—Grants to Voluntary Agencies for Child Welfare, Schools for Mothers, etc.—the note says that the excess was due mainly to the inclusion in the scheme of an additional voluntary agency. What was that, Mr. Kennedy?—The Bethany Home, which had not been on the list before, was recognised during the year.

497. Is there a list of these voluntary agencies?—There is, yes.

Is it published?—No, it is not published but I can give them to you now, if you wish. I have the names of them here.

It might be useful to have that. I do not wish you to read it out but you could send it along for the information of the Committee.—Very good. I will make a note of that. *

498. Subhead J. is the National Blood Transfusion Service?—That is a Grant-in-Aid subhead.

This continues as a permanent thing?— Yes. It is intended to be a permanent organisation. It is a non-profit-making company.

499. Deputy Mrs. Crowley.—In regard to subhead K.—Grants in respect of training of native Irish speakers in Hospital Nursing, including training in Midwifery —is the reason why so few trainees were available that the standard of Irish was too high?—Oh, no, Deputy. The grants are confined to people who are living in the Gaeltacht and they must be native speakers. It is confined entirely to the Gaeltacht areas and it is assumed, of course, then, that they have a very high standard of Irish. It may be taken for granted, if they come from a Gaeltacht area that they have a first-class knowledge of Irish.

500. Would a girl who had a first-class knowledge of Irish but who was not in the Gaeltacht area, have an opportunity? —No, it is confined to the Gaeltacht areas.

501. Chairman.—What is the reason that we cannot get sufficient numbers of candidates?—We find it very hard to decide that in the Department. We do our best to publicise the scheme and interest people in it, but there are very few candidates coming forward. The standard required is not very high—I think it is only about the seventh standard in the national schools.

502. Deputy Briscoe.—Would this be affected by the general difficulty experienced by all institutions looking for probationer nurses, that the standard of pay is not attractive?—In this particular year there was a shortage of nurses everywhere, because a lot of them were going across to England.

The better conditions there, generally? —Yes; the supposed better conditions.

Chairman.—These people can go to England also?—They can.

Deputy Briscoe.—First of all, apart from the extra grant because of Irish, the conditions and pay are so low here that they would do better by going abroad than by staying at home and taking the pay plus the grants?—That applied to many classes of employment so far as girls in the Gaeltacht were concerned.

503. In this case, if you cannot alter the basis of pay in order to make the conditions better, could you make a more substantial grant?—It has been improved.

504. By how much?—Originally, the position was that all the expenses of the girls were paid—the cost of their uniforms and any other outlay—and in addition the grant was made up to a point which would give them pocket money of £15 a year, over and above all other expenses. It has now been increased to £30.

Do you think that £30 would prove sufficiently attractive? You realise that £30 is not £1 a week?—It is not, but everything else is paid for them.

Deputy Briscoe.—We are living in a world where, apart from food, lodging and uniforms, people like to have a little bit of money and the position here is that we have in the State service people of this calibre and the most they are getting is £30.

Chairman.—This is merely a training. scheme.

505. Deputy Briscoe.—But these people are. on the same level as probationary nurses, and I know the training that they do in hospital involves a great deal of work which would otherwise have to be paid for by bringing in maids and other people. These girls render services considerably more than they are paid for, allowing for everything?—Yes, but I should like to point out that the position has improved since the year under review. In Galway Central Hospital, which is one of the training centres under the scheme, at the moment there is a substantial waiting list of probationers.

Chairman.—The general position has improved?—Yes, in general. The reason is that so many girls are not going over to Britain because conditions have been improved generally in the local authority hospitals. Of course, the Department is not concerned with the voluntary hospitals.

506. Deputy Mrs. Crowley.—If the scheme were extended to girls who are Irish speakers, but who live outside the Gaeltacht, probably you would have more applicants?—Probably you would, but the idea of the scheme was to benefit the Gaeltacht in particular.

507. Deputy Sheldon.—Would you think that the policy of not providing accommodation for the nursing staffs would have anything to do with it? I know that this is getting very near policy, but I can justify it from this point of view, that we might hold you were spoiling the ship for a ha’porth of tar, that you are spending money on hospitals which will not produce results because you do not get the staff?—We find that the position varies in different parts of the country. In some places the nurses prefer to live in, while in other places they do not mind living out.

Deputy Commons.—For instance, in my county the nurses prefer living in the hospitals.

Deputy Sheldon.—There are some places where they cannot get outside accommodation?—That is an important consideration sometimes.

507A. Chairman.—As regards the M. series in the subheads, I suppose the sumsthere represent balances?—Yes, balances from previous years. They are disappearing; the grants are all consolidated now.

508. Deputy Briscoe.—The payments under subhead N.—Appropriations in Aid —are statutory payments to the amount of £312,812?—They represent receipts from the local taxation account. They used to go direct to the local authorities. They now come into the Vote and are paid out as part of the health grants.

They are statutory payments?—Yes, that particular item.

Chairman.—Does it vary?—Very little.

509. Deputy Briscoe.—The position has changed. Previously the local authority collected the money, but now it is collected by the Exchequer and passed back to the local authority through your Department?—The payments from the local taxation account are now credited to the Vote for the Department.

Chairman.—It was not always paid through the Exchequer.

510. Deputy Briscoe.—Is there any change in the amount paid to the various local authorities?—No, they still get as much as they got before under this particular heading.

The witness withdrew.

VOTE 45—OFFICE FOR THE MINISTER FOR EDUCATION.

Micheál Breathnach called and examined.

511. Deputy Briscoe.—Under subheads B.1 and B.2, referring to Salaries, Travelling and Incidental Expenses, there is a very substantial reduction in expenditure and the explanation is that the savings were due to vacancies in the staffs of inspectors and organisers. How many inspectors and organisers are needed?— There were altogether in the three branches 22 vacancies in 1948-49. Since then 17 have been filled

512. What was the total number of inspectors and organisers? You say there were 22 vacancies. How many were there altogether?—There would be 65 in the primary and about 12 or 13 in the secondary.

Chairman.—There would be 125 in all. Including the reformatory and industrial schools branch, there would be about 125? —About 123.

513. Deputy Briscoe.—Do you not think that 22 vacancies represented a very substantial deficiency?—It was due to the fact that the machinery of appointment takes a considerable amount of time. They are appointed through the Civil Service Commission. They have to be examined and there has to be an interview and that takes a considerable time. Then, of course, the Department of Finance has to be approached as to whether the posts will be filled or not.

514. I take it that in the original estimate when you estimated for a certain number of organisers and inspectors every one of them was in your opinion essential and that would be more or less confirmed by the Department of Finance. In view of that, it appears to me that 22 of such officers missing for a long time would cause a serious delay in keeping the inspections up to date. You say it takes a long time to fill vacancies but it must have been anticipated that a lot of those people were going out, or did they suddenly leave?—A good many of them would be in the primary branch and the practice there is to appoint a number at the same time. Individual vacancies are not taken. Generally, eight, nine or ten are appointed at the same time.

515. Deputy Briscoe.—I take it that there is some form of anticipation. For instance, in ordinary business if a person knows that a number of his staff are going to leave—he will know it either by getting notice or by knowledge that the type of employment is coming to an end—he takes steps to have candidates ready to fill the vacancies the moment they occur. Would that not be possible in this case? —That would be quite impossible. First of all, we have to get permission from the Department of Finance to fill a vacancy, when it occurs. Then we have to carry out the ordinary procedure in regard to the filling of the vacancy.

516. Suppose an inspector reaches retiring age and you know, a year before-hand, that he is going to retire, are you not allowed to take any steps to deal with promotions to fill his vacancy until the time of his actual retirement?—Not until the actual retirement becomes effective.

I do not know that that is a very good way of doing business in the Civil Service, is it?

Chairman.—Perhaps the educational service ought to be treated differently but my experience has been that, unfortunately, it is not.

Deputy Briscoe.—It is not.

Chairman.—it the Department of Finance were going to give a general sanction, I suppose that other Departments, as well as the Department of Education, would claim privilege.

517. Deputy Briscoe.—The period of time—particularly in the case of primary schools—which young people have in which to be educated until they reach the school-leaving age is so short that we cannot afford to have schools without inspections for long periods of time. Would the Accounting Officer not agree with that opinion?—Our schools are not left without inspection for long periods of time. If there are vacancies on the inspectorial staff we do our best, with the staff we have available, to ensure that no school will be left too long without inspection.

518. Subheads B.1 and B.2 are related and they show that inspections were held up. Is that not so?—Subhead B.2 is based on subhead B.1. The saving is due to the fact that the staff was not there.

519. Deputy Mrs. Crowley.—What is the difference between the duties of an inspector and those of an organiser?—An organiser organises. He helps the teacher with the problems of method and organisation which he or she may come up against in the school. An inspector inspects the work of the teacher and does a certain amount of the other work, also, but his main function is to inspect.

520. Deputy Sheldon.—If it was possible to make a sufficient number of inspections with the staff that you had, why did you fill the vacancies?—I am not saying that it was possible to make a sufficient number of inspections. We did the best, with the staff which we had, to ensure that inspections would not fall in arrears altogether.

521. Chairman.—How long would the period be between the time the vacancy occurs and the new appointment is made? —It varies considerably. The Civil Service Commission have a great volume of work in the way of examinations and interviews for appointment in the whole Civil Service. It all depends upon the pressure upon the Civil Service Commission. The Civil Service Commmissioners have to get people to sit on these interview boards and sometimes it is not so easy to get such people.

522. Deputy Briscoe.—I want to say, Mr. Chairman, that I am not blaming the Accounting Officer in this connection, but I cannot help thinking that if we in the Dublin Corporation had to take that line, and a number of our fire brigade men had retired, there would be a lot of fires which we could not put out?—I suppose a fire is more insistent than an inspection.

523. Chairman.—Perhaps the representative of the Department of Finance could enlighten us on this matter. Is there any assurance which could be given to the Committee that there is no unreasonable delay in this matter? It seems to me that the Committee might take the view that it would be unreasonable that any branch of educational work should be held up because of any routine in connection with the work of the Civil Service Commissioners, or such like.

Mr. M. Breathnach (An Roinn Airgeadais).—I think the Committee may take it that, as the Accounting Officer has pointed out, the general practice is to wait until there are a few vacancies before a competition is announced or held. Even after that, some of the appointees might have to give notice in respect of their existing employment before they would be free to take up their new appointment.

524. Deputy Briscoe.—But surely the officer of the Department of Finance could not agree that approximately one-fifth of the personnel of one section of the Department represented just a few vacancies?—The number is rather big for that particular year, but I think that that would be rather exceptional.

Mr. Breathnach.—Yes, it certainly would be exceptional.

525. Deputy Sheldon.—It would be true to say, I presume, that a number of the vacancies occurred through death rather than retirement and that, therefore, they could not be anticipated. Is that so?— There would be some of those too.

Mr. M. Breathnach (An Roinn Airgeadais).—Yes.

526. Chairman.—Is it not customary that new entrants to the inspectorial staff have to undergo a period of training?

Mr. Breathnach.—Yes. Six months.

527. Chairman.—Would allowance be made for that, if, in addition to the delay of the Civil Service Commission, the junior inspector has to spend some time out with the senior inspectors? Would it not be possible that the delay might be formidable?—It is true that a new inspector has to spend a period of time in training before he is an effective inspector. The period of training varies up to a maximum of six months.

528. Deputy Briscoe.—But that position arises only after he is appointed. There is a vacuum period, is there not?— Yes.

Chairman.—Still, he is not an effective inspector until his period of probation is over.

529. Deputy Briscoe.—Would it not be possible to arrange with the Department of Finance to alter the conditions so as to permit the Department of Education to take in persons temporarily, whose appointment would be subject afterwards to the sanction of the Appointments Commission? I see a very long vacuum period there.

Deputy Sheldon.—Perhaps I might not go as far as that, but they might anticipate retirements.

Mr. Breathnach.—At present, the practice is not to take any notice until the vacancy actually exists. If the Committee can persuade the Department of Finance to allow us to act as the Committee suggests, we shall have no objection.

Deputy Sheldon.—The only people who would be sorry would be the teachers.

530. Chairman.—Subhead C. refers to the preparation of Irish vocabularies. What is the present position?—No meeting of the advisory committee was held during the year under review. The last meeting took place on the 24th March, 1948. The particular vocabularies in question then were vocabularies on metal work and woodwork. That was handed over to the Technical Branch inspectors and they were instructed to collect terms and to collate them. That work has not yet been completed. When it is completed, the committee will meet again and issue a booklet.

531. How do you stand from the point of view of publication of these vocabularies?—Since the beginning, we have published about nine of them.

532. I wonder if they are out of print. One never hears of them or sees them. One hopes that the people who need them have them. Is the position satisfactory? —Once the people in question have them, there is no necessity for having them again. The booklets would be used every day and the teachers would eventually have them by heart. There would then be no need for the booklet, so there need not be a constant demand for them.

533. Deputy Briscoe.—We take it that you collect terms in relation to a particular walk of life and that these terms are brought to a central spot and collated. You then agree on a particular definition, or whatever you like to call it. Do you re-circulate the decision to the areas from which you have got the original words in their different forms, so that they will become universally applied, in accordance with the final decision?—These vocabularies were intended for schools.

534. It might be that in a particular area you might find a word used in a particular way and different from the way in which this body would decide it should be used. You might find a child using that word or may be his father might use it in a particular trade there, and it might be that his particular term is not accepted. What would be the position then?—These terms are so technical that I hardly think that that situation would arise.

It would almost be like the term we have for machine-gun. It is “gunna meaisín,” so that there would be no mistake about it.

535. Chairman.—With regard to subhead D.—Appropriations in Aid—would the Accounting Officer tell us what that would represent?—That would mainly be concerned with an item I spoke about here before, namely, applications from America for certification of educational competence. We charge two dollars for each of them.

536. With regard to the film project referred to in the notes, the Committee might like to know what the cost was. Can the Accounting Officer give us the information?—The cost was £222 12s. 9d.

537. Then the other equipment was got after the projector?—Yes, these were extra.

VOTE 46—PRIMARY EDUCATION.

Mr. M. Breathnach further examined.

538. Chairman.—The first sub-paragraph of paragraph 41 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General reads as follows:—

“Subhead A. 3—Preparatory Colleges, etc.

The average boarding cost per student in the school year 1948-49 ranged from 14s. 2d. to 19s. 6d. per week as compared with 13s. 4d. to 18s. l0d. per week for the previous year. The average fee paid by the students was £17 13s. 2d. as compared with £15 9s. 6d. for the previous year.”

The average boarding cost per student has gone up, then?

539. Deputy Briscoe.—It would not be fair to suggest that the increase is due to the cost of living. I suppose it is due to some other cause?—The cost has increased in some cases and decreased in other cases but the average is up a bit.

540. Chairman.—The average fee paid by students has increased also, has it not? —Yes.

Do you expect that to continue?—We do not like to be too hopeful.

541. Chairman.—The second sub-paragraph reads:—

“Accounts have been furnished to me showing the receipts and expenditure for the school year 1948-49 in connection with the farms and gardens attached to the colleges. In three of the six accounts the receipts exceeded the expenditure whilst the other three accounts disclosed deficits. Periodical inspections of the farms are carried out by officers of the Department of Agriculture, and their reports are available to me.”

Deputy Briscoe.—Are these deficits or extra income substantial?—No, the deficits are small.

Mr. Wann.—There was a deficit of £178 4s. 6d. in the case of Coláiste Brighde. There was a surplus of £116 14s. 2d. in the case of Coláiste Ide. In Coláiste Muire there was a surplus of £139 4s. 8d. In Coláiste Móibhí there was a deficit of £3 13s. 6d. In Coláiste Einde the deficiency was £35 18s. 2d., and in the case of Coláiste Iosagáin there was a surplus of £34 6s. 11d.

Deputy Briscoe.—The figures are not serious one way or the other?

542. Chairman.—The receipts for produce supplied do not seem to be on the high side. We may take it that the farms provide only a small proportion of the requirements?—Yes. In the case of Coláiste Einde, Coláiste Móibhí and Coláiste Iosagáin, the amount of land is very small and in the case of Coláiste Einde it is very infertile.

543. So Tourmakeady is an important one—103 acres, about 31 of which are arable?—Coláiste Brighde has a fairly big acreage, too, but it is very poor land.

544. The Comptroller and Auditor-General points out that the milk supplied in Coláiste Muire was £430 15s. 11d.; other produce, £339 5s. 1d.; sale of cows, etc., £48; sale of surplus produce, £258 13s. 1d.; making a total of £1,076 14s. 1d. The running expenses, including manures and seeds, purchase of cows, etc., were £336 13s. 6d, the wages of farm and garden staff were-£600 15s. 11d, and the balance the surplus, was £139 4s. 8d. The total wages of the farm and garden staff was £903. Of this sum, it was estimated that £302 was attributable to services connected with the College and its precincts—that is to say, with work around the College, presumably.

In the case of Coláiste Ide, the milk supplied was £545 10s. 4d.; other produce, £306 3s 9d.; sale of cows, etc., £40 5s. Od.; sale of surplus produce £228 12s. 11d., making the total receipts £1,120 12s. Od. On the expenses side, the running expenses, including manures, seeds, etc., were £360 19s. 10d.; wages of farm and garden staff, £642 18s. Od., giving a balance or surplus of £116 14s. 2d. The total wages of the farm and garden staff were £926 4s. 6d. Of this sum it is estimated that £283 6s. 6d. was attributable to services connected with the College and its precincts. It is estimated that one half of the time of the farm steward was connected with the College and its precincts. The farm comprises 86 acres, about 31 of which are arable.

545. Paragraph 42 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General, refers to superannuation of teachers, and is by way of information.

546. On subhead A.1—Training Colleges —of the Vote, what was the nature of the special grant to St. Patrick’s College, Drumcondra?—It was a special grant of £13,700 which arose from the fact that the College was not able to fulfil all its financial obligations, for various reasons. For some years they were working on reduced numbers—since 1934, for a period. An institution of that kind could hardly be run without having roughly 150 students. There was no increase in the grant during all those years. Then the College was closed for a year but had to keep a skeleton domestic staff and had to pay salaries of professors. It found itself with a balance on the wrong side of over £13,700. We gave them £7,000 in respect of 1946-47 and £6,700 in respect of 1947-48. Both sums were paid in the financial year 1948-49.

So that terminates this particular special grant?—I do not think it obviates the possibility of an application for a further special grant in respect of later years.

547. On subhead A.4—Grants to Colleges providing Courses in Irish for Primary Teachers—the note says that the number of teachers who attended Irish Colleges was less than expected? Is there any particular reason for that?—There is not so much necessity for primary teachers to attend these Colleges, since the training colleges do all their work in Irish and since a great many of the teachers secure a bilingual certificate on the result of the final in the training colleges. There is not really much necessity to attend courses of this kind in the summer.

548. You say all the training colleges do all their work through Irish?—I think that is right, Sir.

Does the Kildare Place training college do that?—They have to do some work in Trinity College. I presume that is not done through Irish.

549. Deputy Sheldon.—There is nothing new about the situation that the teachers are not required to attend these courses. I remember it cropping up here before. Surely you could have anticipated better the amount that would be required. Did you not overestimate?—It is low, right enough, but it fluctuates all the same. I can read out the numbers since 1943. In 1943 there were 202; in 1944, 151; in 1945, it jumped to 247; in 1946, 181; in 1947, 136; in 1948, 84; in 1949 there was an upward tendency to 102. We have to be prepared for a jump.

Deputy Sheldon.—Very well.

550. Deputy Mrs. Crowley.—On subhead C.3—Van and Boat Services—is that for the transport of children to school?— Yes.

Does that mean that, because there is a saving, sometimes children are not taken by van or boat?—No, it means that there were not applications to have them transported.

551. Chairman.—The whole of this money seems to have been spent on services on which a boat was necessary?—No, van and boat services.

That means that the boat services are only a fraction?—Yes, about £250 out of the whole lot.

552. Deputy Sheldon.—On subhead C.4 —Incidental Expenses—the note mentions failure to place a contract for the supply of rural science equipment. Perhaps Mr. Breathnach could expand the note. It merely says the contract was not placed and I am wondering why?—In November, 1946, the Board of Works was asked to invite tenders for the supply of 100 sets of rural science equipment for national schools, and great difficulty was experienced in obtaining the supply of the required standard. There was no attempt to fill the supply until 1949, when 14 sets of sub-standard quality had to be accepted to supply immediate needs. When the 14 sets were obtained, the Board of Works intimated that it might be upwards of 12 months before there would be delivery of the remaining sets, but delivery has now been almost completed.

It just was not clear from the note that difficulty arose through equipment not being obtainable?—That was the cause of it.

533. Chairman.—On subhead C. 5.— Free Grants of School Requisites—the note says: “saving due to scarcity of school requisites.” That seems to be a very big saving.

Deputy Sheldon.—Has the position with regard to school requisites improved?— Yes, definitely. The greater part consisted of maps and they are gradually coming to the market again, but even then orders are delayed for months.

I hope they do not go out of date too soon.

554. Chairman.—There is a note on subhead C.6—Grants towards the cost of heating, etc., of Schools and cleansing of Out-offices—saying that provision was made for an increased scale of grants which was not put into operation. At the time, I presume?—Yes.

Was it put into operation later?—No, Sir.

Deputy Sheldon.—There was a change of policy?—There were changes.

555. Chairman.—With regard to the note on subhead C.9.—Holiday Scholarships in Gaeltacht (Grant-in-Aid)—on page 145, could we get any particulars of the scheme?—In the county and city of Dublin the amount is £3 10s. Od. or half the cost of the scholarship whichever is the lesser and in other counties it is £3 or half the cost of the scholarship whichever is the lesser.

What is it expected to achieve by the expenditure of that £6 or £7, a week in the Gaeltacht?—A month. We do not pay the entire expenses. Coiste na bPáistí undergo some of the expenses and collect money from private subscriptions. The children are not expected to subsist on what we give them.

556. Deputy Sheldon.—With regard to miscellaneous receipts—No. 12 of the Appropriations in Aid—does that mean that the teachers were more honest or that more overpayments were made than was expected?—We introduced some extra staff to bring orders up-to-date and they discovered some mistakes.

557. Chairman.—Is it the universal custom for county and borough councils to entrust scholarship examinations to you?—It is almost universal. There may be one that conducts the examination itself.

VOTE 47—SECONDARY EDUCATION.

Micheál Breathnach further examined.

558. Chairman.—Paragraph 43 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General relating to Ciste Shéamais A. Mhic Shuibhne is by way of information.

559. Deputy Briscoe.—With regard to subhead G—Payment to the Secondary Teachers’ Pension Fund—on page 153, I take it that that £10 is a token figure?— Yes.

560. It has not been spent and there is no explanatory note?—The secondary teachers’ pension system is contributory. The teachers contribute and the school contributes and the State only comes in when there is a deficit. There was no deficit yet.

Chairman.—I hope that will continue? —I understand that it has not continued. There is a deficit this year.

561. Deputy Briscoe.—With regard to H (2), how do local taxation (customs and excise) duties come in as an Appropriation in Aid to secondary education?

Chairman.—This is an old historical matter.

Mr. Breathnach.—The return from the duty on a certain product was earmarked years ago for education and was divided between primary and secondary education at the time. When the change of Government came that sum was divided between Northern Ireland and the rest of the country. It is still there and secondary education gets the benefit of it. It is the sum of money that was called at one time “the whiskey money.”

562. Deputy Briscoe.—Would there be no chance of your bringing it into a more respectable line of behaviour by letting the Exchequer get the money and reimburse the Department of Education?

Chairman.—I think it is a very good principle. It adds zest to the thirst to feel that the revenue is going for a good purpose.

Mr. Breathnach.—There was a considerable amount of dissatisfaction at the time on the principle that the more the country partook of drink the more money there was for education.

Deputy Briscoe.—It would be a more illogical situation if a person was a teetotaller and had to depend to some extent on liquor for the education of his children.

Chairman.—I think we might leave the ethical question.

Deputy Briscoe.—On education we want to give the fundamentals of ethics.

VOTE 48—TECHNICAL INSTRUCTION.

Mr. Micheál Breathnach further examined.

563. Chairman.—The note on subhead, B.—Annual Grants to Vocational Education Committees—says:—“Teaching services were reduced and certain equipment was not purchased.” I presume that was a casual variation?—It was. The saving was mainly on the Comhairle le Leas Oige.

564. With regard to subhead F.— Examinations—a certificate is granted in each case as a result of these examinations?—Yes.

565. The note on subhead G. reads:— “Certain marriage gratuities and superannuation allowances were not paid by some local authorities when they fell due.” They were paid ultimately—Yes.

566. Deputy Briscoe.—With regard to subhead I—Appropriations in Aid—I do not know whether it is something that has disappeared but I remember when students going to technical schools paid a nominal fee of 5/- per term. Has that gone now?—It is paid to the Committee.

567. How is it that we do not know? There should be some reference so that we could get an indication of the attendance.

Chairman.—I do not know that that would come under accounts.

Deputy Briscoe.—I suggest that it is related in that a grant is given by the State for technical instruction and there is quite a difference of opinion as to whether the State is giving enough or not. The public pay fees to the school they go to, and this does not give us any chance of considering the number of people who are getting instruction for the amount expended?

Mr. Breathnach.—All that information is contained in our Annual Report.

568. Students’ fees are under your control?—No, they are not paid to us, but to the committee, and the auditing body is the Local Government Department.

569. Your subsidies to these institutions are related to their total income?— Their total income from the rates.

It is all inter-related?—I do not think any account is taken of the fees they get but only of what they get from the rates. In certain areas the rate is struck for a certain amount and for every £ the rating authority pays for technical education the Government gives £1 in some cases and £2 in other cases. The rating authority takes into account the income in the shape of the fees from the students.

Chairman.—You might be able to send us a note on it?—I will try.*

It is not a matter in which you have any authority whatever but if the Department has any control over the amount of fees it is relevant?—I do not think the Department has.

570. Deputy Sheldon.—The amount which a committee needs to ask from the local authority could be influenced by their income from fees and in the end it would come back to you?

Chairman.—It might also influence the Department of Education, or even the Department of Finance.

Deputy Briscoe.—And also the people attending the schools.

Chairman.—The fee is very small compared with the average cost per student, I suppose?

Mr. Breathnach.—The fees are small.

Deputy Briscoe.—In my young days, I paid 5/- per term for attending certain classes.

Chairman.—You were not charged enough, it is quite clear.

Deputy Briscoe.—Maybe I did not learn enough.

Chairman.—Perhaps Mr. Breathnach could send us some information about it, if he has any responsibility. I doubt if he has.

571. Deputy Briscoe.—The Department should know what value it is getting for its contribution by relating it to the number of students attending?—We do know. We inspect these schools and we know exactly what value we are getting. You will find a very considerable amount of information on these lines in our annual report.

The figures are given there?—Yes.

For each of the schools?—Yes.

Chairman.—When the annual report comes along, perhaps you could let Deputy Briscoe have a copy?—Very well; I will take a note of it.

Deputy Briscoe.—It is not circulated to Deputies?—No.

That is the reason for my ignorance.

572. Chairman.—There is an item in the Appropriations in Aid: receipts from Church Temporalities Fund, £30,000. They are not appropriated to any particular service? Are they not connected with superannuation?—No. They appear in the secondary schools and the primary schools, too.

VOTE 49—SCIENCE AND ART.

Mr. M. Breathnach further examined.

573. Chairman.—Paragraph 44 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General reads as follows:

“Non-Voted Services.

Duais-Chiste an Uachtaráin de h-Ide.

In paragraph 43 of the report on the accounts for the year 1946-47 reference was made to the donation to the Minister for Education by An Dochtúir Dubhglas de h-Ide of a sum of £300 the annual income from which was to be used for the purpose of encouraging the development of Irish historical painting, including portraiture, by the award of a medal for the best work of the kind in each year. As shown in the appended account of the Fund, a further sum of £250 was donated by An Dochtúir de h-Ide to the Minister for Education for this purpose.”

That is by way of information.

574. Deputy Sheldon.—Why were only 28 scholarships awarded under subhead B.4—University Scholarships and Prizes? —It is not very easy to get candidates to take up these scholarships. They are based on the Leaving Certificate examination and Leaving Certificate candidates usually have several strings to their bows. Some may want to go into the Civil Service and others may want to go into training as primary teachers, and we have to go down very far in the list to fill the scholarships. We do not like to go too far down.

It was not due to a decision to restrict the number of scholarships?—No.

575. Chairman.—Is there any improvement in the position so far as getting sufficient candidates and their suitability are concerned?—No, there does not seem to be any improvement. We do not hope to be able to award 50 scholarships at any time. The limit is about 30. Going further would bring us down the list into mediocrity.

576. This is not the scheme for Coláiste na hlolscoile, Gaillimh?—They have to go to Galway, but it is different from the Fíor-Ghaeltacht scholarships scheme.

577. Subhead B.5—Irish Committee of Historical Sciences (Grant -in-Aid)—the history of the famine will not be appropriate now?

Deputy Briscoe.—Is the history completed now?—The first drafts of all the sections are completed.

It will soon be published, I take it?—It is well on the way. The really heavy work is done—the writing of the various sections. There are about 10 sections and the first draft of each is ready.

578. Will this be printed in English or Irish?—In English. That is the intention at the present, anyhow. There probably will be a translation into Irish later.

579. With regard to subhead B.6— Comhdháil Náisiúnta na Gaeilge (Grantin-Aid)—there is a note which says that these grants were reduced by Government decision. What is meant by that statement? An estimate comes before the Dáil and every subhead is or can be discussed and it is assumed that the money will be spent accordingly.

Chairman.—The Minister for Finance, when the new Administration took office, stated that he intended to effect economies.

Deputy Briscoe.—And this is one of the axed items?

Mr. Breathnach.—Yes.

580. Deputy Sheldon.—Was this decision announced at the time of the passing of the Estimate? Was it ever announced to the Dáil specifically?—That I do not know.

Chairman.—I do not think so.

581. Deputy Sheldon.—I still firmly hold that no one but the Dáil has any right to interfere with the spending of money, of money voted by the Dáil. I have always objected to Government decisions changing a decision of the Dáil because I do not subscribe to the belief that the Government has power under the Constitution to over-ride the Dáil’s wishes.

Mr. Breathnach.—That would not concern me.

Deputy Briscoe.—I merely wanted to know what the reason was.

Chairman.—It appears that these grants are made by the Minister for Education with the sanction of the Minister for Finance.

Deputy Briscoe.—But they are in the Estimates and have been accepted by the Dáil.

582. Chairman.—Is there any further information about subhead B.11—Centenary Commemoration of Thomas Davis and the Young Ireland Movement?—The arrangements could not be completed for the erection of the statue in College Green. Scale models were submitted by two selected artists and examined by a committee of experts which rejected them as being unsuitable. That was in April, 1948. The latest date for submitting scale models was extended to December, 1948, but no further models were received, and the matter was then referred to the Committee on Cultural Relations. They reported in July 1949, that the question of the Davis statue was outside the scope of their terms of reference. A memorandum was then submitted to the Government in August, 1949, giving full details, and in September 1949 the Government advised that the matter had been withdrawn from the Cabinet agenda, pending the submission of recommendations by the law advisers. The law advisers are still considering it.

583. I do not know whether I am trespassing unduly on the accounting officer but I should like to know what particular aspect the law advisers would report on? —The submission to the law advisers did not come from us, so I do not know. It came from the Government.

584. Deputy Briscoe.—Subhead B. 13 —Exhibition of Swiss Posters—does not appear in the Estimates and the note says that it is a special subhead opened with the sanction of the Department of Finance. What exactly does that relate to?—In December, 1947, the Swiss Charge d’Affaires, in a letter to the Minister for Education, said that he had obtained from Switzerland a selection of posters which he wished to have exhibited in the National College of Art. Permission was granted in January, 1948, and the exhibition was to be held from 1st to 11th June. It was understood at the time that there would be no State expenditure. The Charge d’Affaires again wrote to say that, in order to have the posters exhibited to the greatest advantage, they would need to have special frames, and inquired whether the expenditure on the special frames would be borne by the Department. Permission had been given at that time for the exhibition, and it was decided to ask for the sanction of the Minister for Finance for the expenditure involved. Sanction was obtained in 1948.

585. Deputy Sheldon.—Why did you not bring it in under subhead C—Aids to Arts and Crafts Exhibitions?—Well, it was not the kind of exhibition that was contemplated under subhead C.

586. What type were the posters?—I must confess that I did not see them. I understand they were illustrative of the history of Switzerland.

They were not just advertising posters? —No.

587. Deputy Briscoe.—What has happened since to the posters and to the frames?—That I do not know. The frames are probably in the College of Art.

Chairman.—Normally, they would be left in any case.

588. Deputy Briscoe.—Will they become the property of the Board of Works now? —I do not think so.

Chairman.—That concludes the subheads.

589. Deputy Briscoe.—On the general Vote, I should like to ask the Comptroller and Auditor-General if he has anything to say to us on the general question of virement and excess expenditure, in view of the fact that, in the interests of economy, a Minister’s decision can alter the expenditure and so change altogether the whole approach of the Public Accounts Committee to the principle of Departments’ estimating their expenditure and accounting for that expenditure in the sense of keeping it within certain limits.

Mr. Wann.—In this case, permission was given to the Minister for Education and the Minister for Finance to fix the amount of the grants.

Deputy Briscoe.—I think it is only right to mention that the members of this committee do seek the advice of the Comptroller and Auditor-General on this because it is our primary responsibility. This point has been raised in the past from time to time with Accounting Officers. The Committee has, on occasion, written into the Chairman’s Report references to the care with which Departments should estimate, and to the fact that the Estimate should be kept within certain limits, up or down. It is going to be very difficult for us to judge the extent to which the care which we demand is taken by Accounting Officers if this new principle is going to be introduced.

Mr. Wann.—I do not think it is quite a new principle. It is a matter, apparently, of Government policy to cut expenditure.

Deputy Sheldon.—I suggest that this matter should be discussed at our final meeting rather than now.

Deputy Briscoe.—Very well.

590. Deputy Sheldon.—It would help the Committee if we do discuss this question again of a Government decision, if the Accounting Officer could give us a note on subhead B. 8, with regard to the National Film Institute grant?—Very good.*

VOTE 50—REFORMATORY AND INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS.

Micheál Breathnach further examined.

591. Chairman.—We have no figure regarding the cost per head of those detained in these industrial schools for the purposes of comparison with other years. It is the kind of information that the Committee might like to have?—It works out at about £27 per head per annum in the industrial schools. I could let the Committee have more definite information.*

592. Deputy Sheldon.—On subhead D. —Conveyance Expenses—the note says that the saving there was due to improvement in travelling facilities. I am just wondering how an improvement in travelling facilities led to a saving?—I presume it was possibly due to the use to a greater extent of the ordinary public means of transport, such as trains and buses, than of motor cars?

Why should that be called an improvement?—Because there did actually take place an improvement in train and bus services.

593. Deputy Briscoe.—On subhead F. —Building and Equipment Grants—the note says that the saving was due to delay in the preparation of plans and in securing a building licence for a new industrial school for senior boys. Was that considered from the point of view of urgency and need, and, if so, what is the position now?—The position now is that the building is practically almost finished.

594. Deputy Mrs. Crowley.—Under subhead E.—Parental Moneys—Collection Expenses—I should like to know if there is a fixed fee which parents pay for children in certified schools?—Yes. There is a maximum of 10/- in industrial schools and of 11/- in reformatory schools, but it is left to the discretion of the district justice.

And the means of the parents?—Yes.

595. Deputy Briscoe.—I take it that the cases we are dealing with here are quite distinct from those of ordinary offenders who get sent to prison in which case there is no liability on parents for maintenance. I expect that here the payment has some relation to the responsibility of the parent in the upbringing of the child or to the degree of negligence that there has been on the part of the parent?—It is a contribution from the parent in virtue of parenthood and responsibility.

596. Has the contribution any relation to the degree of negligence that there has been on the part of the parent?—That is a matter for the district justice.

VOTE 28—DUBLIN INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED STUDIES.

Micheál Breathnach further examined.

597. Deputy Briscoe.—I see that the original estimate was £48,000 “less supplementary”. I had always thought that “supplementary” meant added?—That is due to the fact that there was a surplus under subhead A, which was transferred to subhead B. You will find that there is a plus under subhead B.

The witness withdrew.

VOTE 21—STATIONERY AND PRINTING.

S. B. Ó Faoileacháin called and examined.

598. Chairman.—As to subhead A.— Salaries, Wages and Allowances—there were charges for overtime which exceeded savings due to depletion of staff?—The overtime charges in that year were due to the fact that a check had to be made on the three and a half million ration books as they came in and their storage had to be looked after which was quite unforeseen as far as we were concerned. Special efforts were also made to expedite the payment of contractors’ accounts towards the end of that financial year and we had certain staff vacancies also.

If you had full staff, would you still have charges for overtime?—We certainly would have had some charges for overtime but not to the same extent.

599. As to subhead D—Incidental Expenses—I presume the expenditure on Press advertising tends to increase and this is merely a casual variation?—It is certainly not increasing at the moment. There was heavy advertising during the war years, but it is not increasing at the moment. Special schemes of advertising such as those in connection with the Departments of Health and Agriculture, are a different matter, but we do not deal with these.

600. Do you deal with the Department of Agriculture?—Yes, but they also have special schemes which they look after themselves.

601. Have you any Appropriations in Aid as against subhead F.3—Printing, Paper and Binding for Iris Oifigiúil; there is no revenue from any announcements?—Yes, No. 8 of the Appropriations Aid realised that year £1,417.

602. Perhaps if that principle were extended to the Oireachtas Debates there might be some possibility of selling them. How many copies would be sold roughly of the Oireachtas Debates; take the Budget or some important occasion, for instance?—These would be abnormal sales. Sometimes, if there is a particular discussion, you might have an abnormal sale for the volume covering it. When certain Bills are going through, say, in connection with Labour problems or things like that, very frequently the trade unions concerned notify us that they would require so many copies and these would be abnormal printings. Normally, we print only 775 copies. There is a very limited sale. We have standing orders, mostly from the legal profession, for I think about 12O copies, and casual sales average approximately 100 copies.

603. Deputy Briscoe.—Would the same apply to the Acts?—No, there is a continuous sale for the Acts year after year. On occasion, we have to reprint certain Acts by the best possible process.

Chairman.—If a trade union or some other body wished to have some extra copies, would you print them for them?— Yes.

604. As to subhead F.5—Publication of Irish Translation of the New Testament —is that making any progress?—Yes, the censor, I understand, has practically completed his work on it now, so I was informed about a week ago.

The theological censor?—Yes. The large surplus there of £97 7s. 6d. out of the £100 granted is due to the fact that that year we did not receive any claim from the editor for his fees.

605. Could you say when this publication is likely to see the light of day?—I should say that portion of it would be ready by early 1952.

606. Deputy Briscoe.—As to subhead F.6—Preparation and Publication of Oireachtas Handbook—you did not go on with the handbook?—We print the handbook when we get it.

There would have to be a demand for it from the Department of Finance?—Yes.

607. Under subhead I.—Paper—I take it that as a result of the experience during the war and the emergency, and relating it to present day uncertainties, you are keeping a reasonably substantial stock of paper on hands?—Yes, a reasonably substantial stock, but the problem at the moment is to get paper.

608. I agree. I know the difficulties the Accounting Officer had during the war and the emergency. We all know that we were supplied with paper, whatever his problems were, but, in view of this experience, I presume adequate steps have been taken to see that for some years to come there will be a sufficient reserve?— Of course we have not the money to pay for a big reserve. We shall have to go to the Dáil. That is a question of policy. We have our views and make representations.

609. I do not think it is so much policy as actual administration. It would be a great tragedy if the Stationery Department found itself with an excellent staff and no paper to print the Dáil Debates, for instance?—There are divided opinions even on that. Our position there is complicated in a way. It may impress Deputies if I tell them that in this particular year we are dealing with, 1948-9, 90 per cent. of all the paper used by the Stationery Office was bought from Irish mills. That meant that the purchases from outside were 10 per cent. Of that 10 per cent., 72 per cent. was paper which was not made here and could not be made here. Anyhow, it was not made; it would not be economical to make it. There was a considerable drop in 1949-50 due to one cause or another. In the first six months of this year our purchases of paper from Irish mills totalled 94 per cent. of our total purchases of paper. Of course it has been the policy to purchase everything possible from Irish mills. It stood us in good stead during the emergency and we have no reason to expect anything but the fullest consideration from the home mills in case of an emergency again. There is, however, always the possibility of the home mills not having sufficient pulp to manufacture paper. We are faced with that. But, since the early spring, it has been next to impossible to receive a quotation for paper from foreign sources. That is the position we are in. So far, none of our tenders or invitations to tender from home mills have been returned to us without acceptance.

610. Chairman.—Is there competition in respect of each class of paper you require from the Irish mills?—There is no competition. We simply have to take their tenders against foreign tenders. That is our test. But there is no competition between the home mills.

611. How many mills have we?—We have four. One mill largely devotes itself to the production of writing paper; another mill, printing papers and manillas; another, krafts and browns and such papers as would make envelopes and paper bags; and the fourth mill is really all brown. There is no competition. The mills making writings and those making printings, as business people, I am sure meet and decide which is writing and which is printing, and that is that.

612. Deputy Briscoe.—While you will give them a very good preference, you are not excluded or precluded from helping yourself from abroad if you feel advantage is being taken of you?—Oh, no. We invite tenders from abroad.

And to that extent you have some check?—Yes.

613. Chairman.—Are your requirements increasing in volume?—This year we used approximately 1,100 tons of paper. During the emergency years we were able to carry on with 650 to 670. Of course the price of paper dropped early this year, but now it is virtually double what it was last February. There is certainly about a 70 per cent. increase now.

614. Have you any responsibility for the collection of waste paper?—We try to collect all waste paper when it is economic to do so. At times we have had to pay to have it burned. On the other hand, during the emergency we collected waste and the Appropriations in Aid at that time were very handsomely increased by the returns from the sales of waste paper. It is our responsibility. The Post Office does a good deal to help us with the collection because they have the means of transport; special bags take it to the G.P.O. from local offices.

615. Deputy Sheldon.—Under subhead J.—Miscellaneous Office Supplies— there is a supplementary estimate for the provision of additional office machinery. What type of office equipment was purchased?—There was quite an increase in office machinery that year. It became the policy to mechanise some of the offices by means of accounting and other machinery. I think there were some additional Holleriths and dictating machines and recording machines. We were able, too, to procure new typewriters which were required badly. But the dictating and accounting machinery is largely responsible for the big bulk of the increase under the supplementary estimate.

616. With regard to the dictating machinery, did that include a machine that was tried out in the House here—the Palantype machine?—I am sure it did, yes.

I wonder could you tell us if those machines were a success?—I am afraid I could not directly say they were quite a success.

617. I would like to have a note on how many of these machines were acquired and what use is now being made of them —Yes.

Chairman.—I think we should have a note of all the machines. It would be no harm if we had a note of all the machines, We would like to know if they were purchased on a big scale where it was proposed, for instance, to turn over a large block of work to machines. It would not be any harm for us to know in what Departments these have been installed and what they cost.

Deputy Sheldon.—And whether they are being used since they were installed— Yes.*

618. Chairman.—Under subhead M. in page 80, value of stock in hand, how does that compare with the previous year? Of course, it is out of date already. You carry about a year’s stock roughly?— Approximately about a year’s stock. We probably would have more than a year’s stock in some types of paper and less in others.

Deputy Briscoe.—According to present prices it would be two years’ stock.

Chairman.—On 31st March, 1948, the stock in hand was £91.830 9s. 2d. as regards paper; stores were £8,042 5s. Od. as against £9,394 11s. 9d.

The witness withdrew.

The Committee adjourned.

* See Appendix XIII.

* See Appendix XIV.

* See Appendix XV.

* See Appendix XVI.

* See Appendix XVII.