Committee Reports > List of Committees > Dáil > 1937 > Committee of Public Accounts > Report - Appropriation Accounts 1935 - 1936

APPENDIX XXI.

CORRESPONDENCE WITH MR. A. O BROLCHÁIN.

(a) With reference to Paragraph 11 of the Final Report of the Committee of Public Accounts dated 8th July, 1936.

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green, N.,

Dublin.

17th June, 1937.

Dear Sir,

I enclose for the information of your committee, a copy of a communication which I have this morning received from the Secretary of the Department of Finance, and of my reply.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN.

The Secretary,

Public Accounts Committee,

Government Buildings,

Dublin.

Enclosure 1.

Department of Finance.

Upper Merrion Street,

Dublin.

16 Meithcamh, 1937.

E.35/6/37.

A Chara,

I am directed by the Minister for Finance to draw your attention to paragraph 38 of the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor-General on the Appropriation Accounts for the financial year 1934-35 relative to the payment of wages to a Manageress of a Rural Industrial Centre during a period at which you were Accounting Officer of the Vote for Gaeltacht Services. I enclose a copy of the paragraph mentioned and also copies of subsequent relevant correspondence between the Department of Lands and this Department. (Department of Lands minute of 6th May, 1936, and Department of Finance minute of 22nd May, 1936). It will be observed that the Minister refused his covering sanction for the payment of wages to the Manageress for the period subsequent to the 30th September, 1934, amounting to approximately £49.

The matter was discussed at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts held on the 27th May, 1936, and a copy of the relevant extract from the Committee’s subsequent report is attached. A copy of the minutes of evidence taken before the Committee on the subject of these payments is also attached.

The Committee expressed the view that the expenditure cannot be admitted as a proper charge against the Vote and they endorsed the view of the Minister for Finance that the continued employment of the Manageress after her managerial duties had ceased was not justified.

Before considering further what action should be taken in the light of the Committee’s recommendation in regard to these payments the Minister is anxious to be furnished with such observations as you, the responsible Accounting Officer at the time the expenditure was incurred, may wish to offer. As it is desired to dispose of the matter as soon as possible, I am to request you to be good enough to forward your observations at an early date.

(Signed) SEÁN Ó MUINHNEACHÁIN.

A. Ó Brolcháin, Esq.,

Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green,

Dublin.

Enclosure 2.

17th June, 1937.

The Secretary,

Department of Finance.

Dear Sir,

I am in receipt of your communication of yesterday covering certain correspondence and an extract from the Report of the Committee on Public Accounts relative to the payment of wages of the Manageress at an Industrial Centre of the Department of Lands for the period from 30th September, 1934, to 17th January, 1935, which your Department feels itself unable to admit as a charge on public funds on the ground that this expenditure would have been avoided by the giving of notice of termination of the services of the Manageress as at 30th September, 1934, following a decision to dispose of the Centre, a view upheld by the Public Accounts Committee on the case as presented to them.

Your communication is the first intimation I have received that any such question had arisen, although at all material times I have been easily accessible to everybody concerned.

I note that material circumstances have not emerged in the correspondence which you send me and did not transpire before the Committee on Public Accounts and which, if they had been before the Committee, might have led them to take a different view.

In these circumstances it would seem to me the correct course that application be made to the Committee to afford me, who am the responsible Accounting Officer against whom the dereliction of public duty is alleged, an opportunity of laying before them the grounds justifying the procedure followed.

I should be obliged if you would be so good as to approach the Committee with a request to afford me this opportunity at their convenience. I am forwarding a copy of this communication to the Secretary of the Public Accounts Committee.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN.

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green, Dublin,

5th July, 1937.

Dear Sir,

I have to refer to my letter of 17th ultimo on the subject of paragraph 11 of the Final Report of your Committee on the Appropriation Accounts for 1934-5, and to enclose, for the information of the Committee, copies of a further communication, dated 3rd instant, on the subject which I have received from the Department of Finance and of my reply.

I should be obliged if you would inform your Chairman that there was at all times an answer to the charge of want of regard for the public interest and the public purse alleged, which in my opinion is complete and conclusive.

In these circumstances I now make formal application to your Committee to afford me at their earliest convenience an opportunity of appearing before them and stating fully the facts of the matter.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN.

The Secretary,

The Public Accounts Committee,

Leinster House, Dublin.

Enclosure 1.

Sráid Mhuirbhtheann Uacht.,

(Upper Merrion Street),

Baile Átha Cliath.

(Dublin).

3 Iúl, 1937.

E. 35/6/37.

A Chara,

In reply to your letter of the 17th ultimo relative to the payment of wages to a Manageress of a Rural Industrial Centre during the financial year 1934-35 at a time when you were Accounting Officer for the Vote for Gaeltacht Services and to the recommendation made in regard thereto by the Committee of Public Accounts, I am directed by the Minister for Finance to state that he has noted your suggestion that he should request the Committee to afford you an opportunity of giving evidence on this subject. I am to point out that the Committee of Public Accounts is empowered by Dáil Eireann to send to persons, papers and records, that its procedure in these respects is a matter entirely for itself, and that as it did not see fit to ask you to attend as a witness when the expenditure in question was under review, the Minister for Finance regrets that he cannot accede to your request to make an application to the Committee to hear your evidence at this stage, as such a request would imply a reflection upon the Committee’s conduct of its business.

I am also to state that it is unlikely that a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts will be held before the autumn and that the Minister is anxious to convey an early decision as to the incidence of charge of the expenditure on which the Committee has already reported in the manner indicated in this Department’s letter to you dated 16th ultimo. If you are satisfied that there are material circumstances that have not yet been taken into consideration and that those circumstances might lead to a favourable review of the Minister’s previous decision withholding covering sanction for this expenditure, the expedient course seems to be to furnish your observations to the Minister on the points at issue, as requested by this Department’s letter of the 16th ultimo. In the Minister’s view there seems no real ground for withholding your observations.

I am, accordingly, to request you to be good enough to forward your observations on this matter at an early date.

(Signed) SEÁN Ó MUINHNEACHÁIN.

Enclosure 2.

5th July, 1937.

Dear Sir,

I am in receipt of your communication, No. E. 35/6/37, of the 3rd instant on the subject of paragraph 11 of the Final Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Appropriation Accounts for 1934-5.

I was aware that the procedure of the Committee is a matter within their own regulation, but it had seemed to me that in the circumstances an application for the review of the Committee’s decision would have come more gracefully from you as an act of redress than from me as an act of protest. The Committee would not in my view have lent themselves knowingly to a procedure by which every representation would be heard, except that of the party against whom the dereliction of duty was alleged and from whom it is sought to make recovery, thereby allowing themselves to register a decision under an entire misapprehension as to the true facts of the matter.

The course you suggest by which the propriety of the Committee’s decision would be canvassed and questioned elsewhere than before the Committee themselves would in my view be highly improper, and greatly derogatory of the dignity and authority of the Committee and unfair to the Comptroller and Auditor-General.

Failing action on your part I have therefore made the application to the Committee for a review of their decision and enclose, for your information, a copy of that application.

I am deeply regretful if the course which this matter has taken should occasion inconvenience to your Department.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN.

The Secretary,

Department of Finance,

Government Buildings,

Dublin.

15th July, 1937.

A. O Brolcháin, Esq.,

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green,

Dublin.

Committee of Public Accounts.

A Chara,

I have received your letters of 17th ult. and 5th inst., with enclosures. The Committee of Public Accounts is not, at present, in existence. When it is again constituted I shall bring this correspondence to the notice of the Chairman.

Mise le meas,

P. O TUATHAIL,

Cléireach an Choiste.

(b) Alleged losses of Public Money and diversion abroad of important State Contracts.

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green, N.,

19th October, 1937.

Dear Sir,

Referring to my application of 5th July last in connection with paragraph 11 of the Final Report of your Committee on the Appropriation Accounts for 1934-35, I have now further to ask whether on the conclusion of that matter the Committee would be prepared to afford me an opportunity of bringing to their notice certain practices of which the State is in my opinion the victim, and which are in my view resulting in large losses of public money and the diversion abroad of important State contracts.

The specific instance of these practices which I should propose to cite affects public expenditure later to come under review by the Committee.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN

The Secretary,

The Public Accounts Committee,

Leinster House,

Dublin.

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green, N.,

19th November, 1937.

Dear Sir,

Referring to my application of the 19th ultimo, I have to add that, if the Committee are prepared to hear me in the matter mentioned, I should desire, in view of the gravity of the case to be presented and in order that the Committee may have the advantage of authoritative opinion on the effect of certain unusual documentary evidence to be adduced, to appear with the leave of the Committee by Counsel.

I should be glad, therefore, to be informed in due course whether the Committee will be prepared to hear me and, if so, whether they would have any objection to my entering an appearance with the aid of Counsel.

(Signed) A. Ó BROLCHÁIN.

The Secretary,

The Public Accounts Committee,

Leinster House,

Dublin.

26th November, 1937.

A. O Brolcháin, Esq.,

Office of the Tariff Commission,

33 St. Stephen’s Green, North,

Dublin.

A Chara,

Committee of Public Accounts.

At its meeting yesterday this Committee had under consideration (1) your letters of 17th June and 5th July last, with enclosures, dealing with the subject of paragraph 11 of last year’s Report, and (2) your letters of the 19th ultimo and 19th instant, dealing with undefined losses alleged to have been borne by the State, but which are not included in any accounts at present referred to this Committee for examination. I am directed by the Committee to inform you that they do not wish to take any evidence from you in reference to either subject.

P. O TUATHAIL.

Cléireach an Choiste.