Committee Reports > List of Committees > Dáil > 1931 > Select Committee on Moneylenders Bill, 1929 > Report - Moneylenders Bill, 1929 together with the proceedings of the Special Committee and Minutes of Evidence

INDEX.

[The references are to Questions in the Minutes of Evidence.]

Amendments to the Bill suggested by witnesses—

Section 1: True name should be defined as that by which the applicant was known for ten years prior to his application, Mr. S. Horwich, 12-16, Mr. H. Handleman, 159.

Period of licences, should expire on 31st December in each year, Mr. G. P. Cussen, 776.

Excise Penalties, should delete the word “excise,” Mr. G. P. Cussen, 776-780, 835-841.

Section 2: Incorporated Companies should be empowered to take out licences in their corporate name, their Directors not being obliged to do so in their own names, Messrs. Morrison and Gerrard, 507, 508, 533-534.

—— (2): Moneylenders should do business only in their true names, not in any authorised name, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

—— (4): Period of licences should expire on 31st December in each year, Mr. G. P. Cussen, 776.

—— (5): The Minister for Justice should have the power to make regulations under the Act. Suggested requirements under these Regulations as regards information that should be asked from applicants for licences, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

—— (6): Grounds of refusal should not be limited as in the Bill. Suggests additional grounds, viz.:—

(i)failure to satisfy the Court as to financial stability.

(ii)that the applicant had been previously convicted of an offence under this Act or any other relating to moneylending; or that a previous certificate had been revoked.

(iii)a previous refusal by a District Justice to grant a certificate confirmed by the Circuit Court.

(iv)that applicant has not at least 12 months’ residence.

(v)that the applicant has been sentenced to penal servitude, or convicted of an offence involving fraud or dishonesty.

(vi)that the applicant is a publican, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

—— (6): The Superintendent should have the right to appear and oppose the granting of a certificate. If evidence of good character has been given, the Superintendent should produce any facts to rebut this evidence. He should also have the right to call witnesses, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

Section 3: (1) (b), line 36: Would add the words “and to the local Superintendent of the Gárda Síochána,” Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

Section 5 (1): Should be amended to permit circulars to be issued to persons outside the Saorstát, Miss T., 431-498.

—— (1), (2): There should be placed on the premises a conspicuous notice in letters not less than 3 inches long bearing the true name of the monevlender and the words “registered moneylender,” and no other words.

—— (3): Wishes this made more definitely restrictive of house to house canvass or collection by moneylenders themselves. All business should be done on the premises. Statutory powers should be given to Gárdaí to demand the production of the licence, the name and address of any person suspected of convassing. It should be an offence to refuse, or to give false, information.

—Genl. O’Duffy, 442-451, 478-480.

Section 6 (1) and (2): Certain devices practised by moneylenders, to obtain money from clients in Great Britain come close to criminal acts. The operations of these men should be prevented, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

Section 7: That the words “and where the borrower is a married woman living with her husband, by the borrower and her husband”, should be struck out, Dublin Credit Traders’ Association, 17-24.

If a married woman is not independent of her husband’s earnings, he should concur in her contracts, Mr. Handleman, 160-164.

A copy of the contract, on signature, should be handed to the borrower, Mr. Cussen, 776.

Agreements should be in a prescribed form, and should bear a stamp duty. An offence to use any other form. Full particulars of all transactions, in chronological order should be entered in a book of prescribed form. Failure to enter the particulars or keeping false records, should be a serious offence.

Payments by the moneylenders should be in money not in goods.

Moneylenders should be prevented from making bargains to settle outstanding accounts of clients, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

Section 9 (1): Supervision by Officers of Customs and Excise and by Gárdaí of records. Gárdaí should have power of entry and search without warrants. Penalties for refusal to admit or facilitate Gárdaí.

—— (2): The sum should be one shilling, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

Section 11: That the words “twenty” and “forty-eight” in sub-section (1) be both changed to “sixty.”

That this section should not apply to loans not exceeding £10. In the case of these latter loans that there should be a permitted charge of 5/- in the £1, repayments to be spread over a period of 40 weeks, Dublin Credit Traders’ Association, 177-183.

The rate might be increased to 25 or 30 per cent. per annum as a fixed figure, rather than throw onus on the moneylender of proving that his rate is not excessive, Mr. Cussen, 776, 811-814, 850-853.

The Court, at its own discretion, should be empowered to reopen a case, even where undefended, Mr. Cussen, 850-853.

Moneylenders charging excessive interest should be (1) liable to penalties, (2) liable to have licence withdrawn, Genl. O’Duffy, 717-720.

Section 13: Delete the entire section, Dublin Credit Traders’ Association, 39-40.

For loans up to £10 the time for proceedings should be eighteen months from the date of the loan. For other loans, two years, Mr. Cussen, 815-819.

Section 15: Substitute “True” name instead of “Authorised” name, and “Registered” address instead of “Authorised” address, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

New Sections—

1. Hours of Business should be:

Mondays to Fridays, 10 a.m. to 5 p.m.

Saturdays, 10 a.m. to 1 p.m.

No business on Sundays or recognised Holidays, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

2. Suitability of Premises. The Superintendent should issue certificates as to this. His grounds for refusal should be:

(i)that applicant does not hold a moneylender’s licence;

(ii)that he is not the proprietor of the premises;

(iii)that other business is carried on in them;

(iv)that the premises communicate internally with other premises:

(v)close proximity to a public-house, factory or tenement quarter;

(vi)that there are already sufficient moneylenders in the area.

As regards (vi), suggestion of one moneylender to every 5,000 of the population of Dublin and Townships.

The number might be kept down by the imposition of an excise duty of £20 for a certificate of suitability of premises, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

3. No business with persons under 16 years of age, Gen. O’Duffy, 709.

4. As regards unregistered moneylenders. Gárdai should have power to enter without warrant and search premises on which it is suspected that illegal moneylending is going on. Power to demand names and addresses of any persons found thereon. Power also to stop persons suspected of moneylending without licence; and in case of refusal or false information as to name and address, power of arrest. Obstruction of Gárdaí should be an offence, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

5. “Credit auctions” should be stopped, Genl. O’Duffy, 709.

6. Touting, inducing people to take loans, or preying on the fears of married women should be made criminal offences, Mr. Horwich, 54-56.

7. There should be no fines for defaulting, Mr. P. J. McCarthy.

8. Persons under 21 should not be given loans under risk of incurring penalty, Mr. P. J. McCarthy, 941, Mr. Darbey, 1016-1019.

B., Mr.—does not wish his name published, 651,—is a borrower, and gives particulars of his loans, 652-58,—is mistaken as to the rate of interest charged him, 660-664,—wife and son join him as sureties, 665-667,— has had transactions with five moneylenders, never got free, 668-672,— knows no one who benefited by borrowing from moneylenders, 673-674,—moneylenders do not reject old clients, 675,—son threatened in his business because of his father’s failure to meet instalments, 677-679,—outstanding balances deducted from new loans, 680,—interest deducted beforehand from loans, 681,—gives particulars of various loans to show that interest is charged on outstanding portion of old loans, 682-706.

Boggan, Miss bridget—represents the firm of S. Mofsovitz, whose wife conducts a separate moneylending business, 1599-1613,—particulars of loans given to Mrs. K., 1613-1635, 1647-1655,—uncertain as to the rate of interest charged, 1636-1637,—her firm never communicates with the husbands of married women who are clients, 1638-1646,—is unaware of confidential communication between her firm and other moneylending firms, 1660-1663,—preliminary information required from clients, 1664-1670.

Browne, Miss kathleen—is private secretary to Mrs. Morris, a moneylender, 1508,—her firm did not communicate with the husband of Mrs. K., 1513,—ladies introduced by Mrs. K. got loans for themselves, 1514-1525, 1572-1581,—details of Mrs. K.’s account; unable to state the rate of interest charged, 1526-1548,—did not bring any books, 1549-1552,—no personal canvass for business, but collectors go out from the firm, 1553-1555,—agreed not to inform the lady’s husband, 1558-60,—called on Mrs. K., but did not threaten her, 1564-1572,— preliminary enquiries before loans are given, 1582-1587,—cannot account for the same address being entered on the cards of all three ladies introduced, 1588-1598.

C., Mr. A.—does not wish his name published, 862-866,—description of a loan negotiated by him with a firm in Dublin, 866-881,—moneylender took away receipts for furniture, etc., 882-883,—also dealt with a firm in Newcastle-on-Tyne, 887-904,—receipts, death-policies, etc., also taken away by them, 893,—blank bill signed and afterwards filled in by moneylender, 894-896,—dealings with a Dublin firm show that advertisements are unreliable, 909,—mitigation of the debt following on High Court action, 909,—considers moneylenders’ methods are oppressive, 914.

Cussen, Mr. Geo. P.—is Senior Justice of the Metropolitan District Court, 773-775.

General Statement, 776: considerable court experience of moneylending cases; rate of interest nearly always excessive, and wrongly calculated; decrees always for less than the sum claimed; cites a typical case adjudicated by him. Suggests that the Bill should be amended to include the following points: (1) licences to run for the calendar year (Sections 1 and 2): (2) penalties mentioned in Section 1 should not be described as “excise”; (3) a copy of the contract should be given, on signature, to the borrower (Section 7); (4) approves of the provision in Section 11 for re-opening the transaction by the Court where the case is not defended; (5) the rate of twenty per cent. in Section 11 is too small, suggests twenty-five or thirty; (6) in Section 13, the period should be eighteen months from the date of the loan, for loans up to £10, and two years in other cases.

His objections to excise penalties; recommendations for mitigation never acted on by the Revenue Commissioners; case of Murphy cited, Justice’s recommendation unheeded, threat of mandamus, 777-780,— differences between English and Irish law as regards excise penalties, case of Hanna at Dun Laoghaire, 835-841,—thinks that the non-publication of name of borrower or surety would encourage them to come into court, 781-783,—moneylender never wishes to put borrower into jail after getting a decree, 784,—an economic gain to the country by having loans for as short a period as possible, 785-792,—payment by instalments, 793,—does not favour compelling women to obtain their husbands’ consent to borrow, 794, 820-823,—excessive interest, 795-798,—unregistered moneylenders never sue in the Courts, 803-805,— suggests thirty per cent. as rate of interest as he thinks moneylending is a necessity in certain cases, 806-810,—Section 11 unworkable, it should be altered by removing onus from moneylender of proving that rate should be greater than thirty; a fixed rate of thirty is preferable, 811-814, 850-853,—his proposals for the amendment of Section 13, dealing with limitation of time for proceedings, 815-819,—moneylender should not visit borrower’s residence, 822,—finds many borrowers reluctant to pay, 823-824,—great number of moneylending cases in court, 825-829,—only knows of two benevolent moneylending societies, both in a small way, 830-833,—the Court Poor Box, 834,—suggestion that a rate of thirty per cent. interest is not sufficient, 842-849,— collection of debts in Saorstát greatly helped by the Enforcement of Powers Act, 854-55,—methods of unregistered moneylenders, 857-861.

D., Mr.—moneylending transactions of his wife, who was driven into a lunatic asylum, 1013-1015,—loans given to his stepdaughter through a minor, 1016-1019,—debts charged to his wife, though not contracted in her name, 1019-1032.

Dwyer, Mr. J.—is a principal Clerk in the Department of the Revenue Commissioners, 1092,—the Commissioners have sent him to give evidence with regard to a statement made by Mr. Cussen before the Committee, in which the Commissioners allege that all the facts are not given, 1094-1095,—Commissioners’ memorandum is similar to a statement already made in the Dáil by the Minister for Finance, 1095-1096,—the Commissioners have no power of imprisonment without trial in court, 1097,—witness authorised to deal only with the statement of Mr. Cussen, 1098-1111,—thinks that Mr. Cussen’s statement, if more complete, would bear another impression, 1103-1104,—Justices’ power of reduction of excise penalties; recommendations by Justices are always considered by the Commissioners, and frequently acted upon, 1112-1114, 1120,—legal proceedings always precede committal to jail, 1115-1117,—the omission of vital facts from the statement made to the Committee vitiates it, 1121-1126,—Mr. Cussen was furnished with the reasons why the Commissioners refused to reduce the penalty, 1127-29,—witness’s evidence is to the effect that the Justice’s statement omitted essential facts, not that it was untrue, 1130-1134,—Commissioners’ reasons for not reducing the penalty in the case read by witness, 1135-38,—Mr. Cussen’s opinion was that the prisoner should be kept in custody not longer than four months; the Commissioners in fact released him after three, 1139,—newspaper placards in the city, 1139-1142,—will not express any opinion as to whether the law should be altered, 1143, 1147, 1150,—enumeration of the statutory powers of the Commissioners, 1144-1149.

Finucane, Mr. ThomasA.—is Manager of the Commercial Union Loan and Discount Company, 1376-1381,—did business with Mrs. K., a married woman, without being sure of her husband’s consent, though he states that this is not the practice of his firm, 1382-1412, 1466,— gives details of her account, 1413-1419,—cannot say what rate of interest was charged her, 1420-1428, 1464,—is in communication with her husband’s solicitor, 1429-1431,—no details kept of a letter showing that the lady was the owner of her house, 1434-1449, 1473-1480,— is not in the habit of producing misstatements by clients against them, 1449-1460,—no ring among moneylenders, 1466-1470, 1481-1490,—no subsidiary loan business carried on in connection with his firm, 1491-1507,—various moneylenders mentioned by Mrs. K. not represented before the Committee, 1671-1676,—does not object to contracts made without husband’s consent being null and void, 1677-1686,—knows nothing of, and does not approve of, an attempt to bribe a Deputy on the Committee, 1688-1697.

Handleman, Mr. Hyman,—the term “true name” should be defined, 159, —in the case of a married woman, not independent of her husband’s earnings, he should concur in her moneylending contracts, moneylenders should take the risk when making loans, 160-164,—minimum of sixty per cent. interest necessary, 165,—disagrees with Mr. Horwich’s estimate of capital losses as one-tenth; his experience is one-third, 166-172, 205,—states his opinion that the rate of interest charged by small lenders should be sixty-five per cent., 177-183,—thinks pawnbrokers’ profits are permitted at one hundred per cent., 184-186,—English rate of interest, defined in the Statute of 1927, is inconveniently small, 187-188,—does not agree that losses of English moneylenders are greater than those of Irish, 189-190,—thinks Section 13 of the Bill should be deleted, 193, 229-232,—pawnbrokers and dealers on hire-purchase system are no better than are moneylenders, 194-198,—emphasises the cost of collection, comparison with industrial Societies, 199,—cannot give any indication of bad debts, 205-209,—details of his expenses: not half of amount received in interest, 211-216,—rebates given by moneylenders doing a legitimate business, 219-221,—small experience of court cases, 257,—post-dated cheques, does a small business in, 258-260,—comparison of moneylending with hire purchase, 261-263,—his business is not largely with street traders, 265-272,—moneylenders employ local labour, 278,— pawnbrokers’ business not unfavourably circumstanced as compared with moneylending, 279, 283,—preliminary deductions made from loans vary according to circumstances, 285-289,—disagrees with the statement that borrowers cannot free themselves from moneylenders, 301-304,—borrowers established in business through moneylenders, 305-308, 311-313,—the borrower fixes the terms of the contract, 314-317,—rate of interest increases with risk, 318-322,—disapproves of pressure by threats of criminal proceedings by moneylenders where borrowers give wrong information in their application for loans, 1330-1334,—thinks the Bill will do good in abolishing the unregistered woman money-hawker, the rate of interest at fifty per cent. would be impossible for her, 1334-1339,—thinks anything less than fifty per cent. would throw out many legitimate moneylenders, 1339,—borrower should be told the rate of interest charged him, 1340-1346,—is unaware of English moneylenders doing business in a small way in this country through agents, 1347-1353,—effects of the English Act on the moneylending business; big sum paid by a Dublin moneylender for purchase of a Glasgow business; only the big businesses remain in England, hardship of this on small borrowers, 1354-1362,—thinks that moneylending institutions are really charging a higher rate, having regard to fines, etc., 1363-1369,—English moneylenders not to be permitted under the Bill, 1370-1375.

Horwich, Mr. Samuel,—Dublin Credit Traders’ Association, its membership and purpose, 1-7, 84-98, 122-126,—no definition of the term “true name” in the Bill; suggested definition, 12-16,—suggested amendment to Section 7, to provide that married women should be enabled to borrow money without joining their husbands in the contract, 17-24,—misprint in Section 11, 24-25,—percentage of bad debts, 26-32,— rate of interest in the Bill too small, contrast of Irish with English conditions, 33-38, 41-16,—suggests the deletion of Section 13, limiting the period for proceedings dealing with moneylending transactions, 39-40,—bad debts amount to ten per cent. of capital lent, 47-48,— street traders are fifty per cent. of moneylenders’ clients, nearly all resort to moneylenders to finance their business, 49-53, 107,—never free themselves from moneylenders, 112,—preying on fears of married women, touting or inducing people to take loans should be made criminal offences, 54-57,—difficulty of calculating interest owing to preliminary deduction of entire interest, 60-73, 113-119, 127-40,— approves of renewal of loans deducting amounts outstanding on previous loans, as well as interest, 74-82,—no rebate of interest given if loan is paid off before date due, 100-104,—loans of £1,000 or upwards unknown in Dublin, 146-149,—many moneylenders never in court, 150-152.

Jackson-Jellie, Mr. C. A.—is auditor to various moneylenders, 1034,— rate of interest averages 166 per cent. per annum, 1036-1042,—but this is very rarely realised, owing to lapsed payments, 1043, 1062,— principles adopted in calculating bad debts, 1044-1049,—does not state the amount of capital in any case, 1050,—particulars of expenses charged, 1051,—method of dealing with idle capital, 1052-1055,— average bad debts amount in Dublin to twenty-seven per cent., 1056-1060,—thinks moneylenders would become bankrupt on a rate of forty per cent. under existing conditions of repayment; cases in which lapsed payments occur soon become bad debts; lowering the rate of interest will mean more court cases; method of calculation in the First Schedule of the Bill is a rough-and-ready one, the interest calculated is a nominal, not an actual one; difficulties arise out of the First Schedule where a borrower wishes to pay off his debt before its period has run and also where lapsed payments occur; denies that suicides and ruined homes are the consequences of moneylending, 1062,—expenses of one case cited by witness, 1063-1075,—interest varies directly with bad debts, 1076-1078,—thinks a rate of fifty per cent. is the least possible, 1080-1082,—debts more easily recovered here than in England, 1083-1087,—expenses do not include rent of private dwelling-houses, but do include interest on overdrafts, 1088-1091,—small loans; should never be less than £1; cannot be eliminated altogether; interest on them must always be much higher; fifty per cent. would not be safe; the difficulty in the case of men doing business in small loans is very often shortage of capital; the present very high interest is keeping many from borrowing, 1250-1277,—expenses of moneylenders will be heavier under the Bill, though greater business will eventually come, 1278-1280,—bad debts increase with risks, and lowering of the rate of interest will induce lenders to be more careful, but a point may come where business is not worth while, 1281-1298,— explanation of nominal and effective rates of interest, different proportion of interest included in the later instalments of repayment, 1299-1304,—abuses occur in the case of small loans, 1305-1309,— approves of the English system of paying instalments into court, but small loans should nevertheless bear fifty per cent., with a discretion given to the magistrate to vary it according to the security, 1310-1315, —the system outlined in the Bill would compel moneylenders to proceed carefully, and many small men would go, 1316-1318,—easier to collect debts in Ireland, 1319-1321,—prefers the English method of court collection to the committal procedure of our Enforcement of Law Act, 1323-1329.

K., Mr.—borrowing transactions of his wife; her health fails owing to resulting worry; she is in the hands of twelve moneylenders; details of the loans; transactions made under different names at suggestion of the moneylender; names of the various persons who lent her money, 1201-1249.

Morrison, Mr. T. J. and Mr. J. T. Gerrard,—Directors, Provident Union Discount Company, Ltd.—registration and membership of the Company, 499-504,—lends money to its own members, but also to some non-members, 506, 514-5, 521,—Section 2 of the Bill should be altered, to provide that Companies should be licensed, without obliging each Director to be licensed, 507, 518, 533-534,—Company has a good record as regards bad debts, 510,—statement of rate of interest, 516, 526-528, 538-540,— number of non-members who have received loans, 522,—no advertisements or circularisation, outsiders are recommended by members 523,—are advised that they are moneylenders within the meaning of the Act of 1900, 524,—the primary object of the Company was benevolent, 525,—a moneylending society such as theirs is a necessity, 529,—their rate of interest is influenced by their having large capital and by greater security; their rates could not possibly govern ordi nary moneylenders, 531,—think that the ordinary business of moneylending is beneficial if the interest is not too high, 535,—would not extend their operations at present rate of interest to cover small business among poor people, because of risk, 537,—outsiders charged higher interest, 541-542,—nature of security required from non-members, 543,—shareholders’ dividend, reserve fund, etc., 546,— greater amount lent to members, 547,—some fines imposed, 551.

McCarthy, Mr. P. J.—his wife carries on a separate business, 922,—her transactions with various moneylenders, 923-932, 968-973,—money-lenders should have a registerered place of business, 934, 944a,—they employ agents in various factories, 934, 944a-948, 964-966, 1005-1010, —is mistaken as to the legal rate of interest in England, when suggesting twenty per cent. for this Bill, 935-937,—married women should consult their husbands, 938,—moneylenders use agents to lend to street traders, 938,—to be in arrears is used to force other loans on married women, 940, 949,—law against giving loans to minors is abused in factories, heavier penalties should be imposed, 941-943, 958-60,—moneylending may be useful in many cases, but interest should not exceed twenty per cent., 961-963,—suggestion that moneylenders brought pressure on him, for attendance before the Committee, 994-999.

O’Duffy, General.—Commissioner of Gárda Síochána, 707,—no police supervision of moneylending business, 708,—difficulties in getting evidence of offences, 709.

General Statement, 709: Eighty per cent. of registered moneylenders of Free State are in Dublin, statistics for other cities; police experience as regards rate of interest, instalments, fines and promisory notes; registered lenders advertise, unregistered employ touts; lowly paid clerks and poor people are the clients, as a general rule; only six police cases dealing with moneylending in five years, details of these cases; police reports as to the effects of moneylending on the production of crime; activities of unregistered moneylenders at holiday periods, and at times of family bereavement.

Approves of the Bill but thinks it should go further; does not agree that moneylending should be prohibited; closer supervision required than is provided for in the Bill; the unregistered lender not sufficiently restrained; the Bill does not adequately deal with the problem of enforcement.

Section 1 (2): Trading should be done under the true names, not in any authorised names.

Section 2 (5): Suggests various requirements from applicants for certificates. These can be laid down by regulation made by the Minister.

Section 2 (6): The District Justice should not be limited in the grounds for refusal to grant certificates; additional grounds for refusal suggested, namely, financial instability; previous conviction of offence; previous refusal by the Court to grant a certificate; want of twelve months’ residence; conviction of penal servitude, of fraud or dishonesty; being engaged in the business of a publican. The Superintendent should be empowered (1) to oppose grant of certificates (2) to furnish rebutting evidence as to character (3) to call witnesses.

He suggests a new section as regards suitability of premises, certificates for which should be issued by the local Superintendent; suggests six grounds for refusal by that officer, with appeal to the District Court; would limit the number of moneylenders proportionately to the population, reducing the number to about eighty; a further limitation would follow if an excise duty were imposed; desires that the business should be respectable; unemployment would not follow from the adoption of his suggestions.

Section 3: Suggests that the Court shall notify the Gárda Síochána of convictions against moneylenders.

Section 5: Suggests that the true name be displayed prominently on the premises, with the words “registered moneylender” but no other notice or advertisement. The section should prohibit moneylenders themselves from house-to-house canvassing; asks for certain statutory powers for the Gárda to prevent this.

Section 6: Sharp practices by pretending moneylenders who advertise by circular outside Saorstát. Asks that their operations be prevented.

Section 7: It should be compulsory to use a prescribed contract form bearing stamp duty. Books in prescribed form containing particulars of transactions should be kept. Payments by moneylenders should be in specie, not in goods. Describes various abuses where moneylenders deal in goods.

Section 9: The Guards and the Officers of Customs and Excise should be given power of entry and search, with authority to examine records.

Sub-section 2 states that the sum of one shilling is sufficient.

Section 15: Suggests that the terms “authorised name” and “authorised address” be changed.

Suggested new sections:

(i)Hours and days for business should be prescribed, gives his views as to what these should be.

(ii)Asks for power to Guards (1) to enter without warrant premises where illegal moneylending is suspected, (2) to stop, question, and, if necessary, arrest persons suspected of illegal moneylending. It should be constituted an offence to obstruct Gardaí in their execution of such duties where unregistered moneylenders are in question.

(iii)Money lent by unregistered moneylenders should not be recoverable in law.

(iv)“Credit auctions” as practised in Donegal should be made illegal.

Does not agree that pawnbrokers should be refused moneylenders’ licences, 709,—suspects that some publicans are acting as unregistered moneylenders, 710-711, 726-728,—debts should be collected at business premises, not by house-to-house canvass; only communication by letter should otherwise take place, 712-715,—borrowers afraid to take action against moneylenders, consequent necessity of intervention by the Guards, 715-716,—Guards should be charged with the duty of enforcing the limitation on the rate of interest, 717,—renewal of licence should be refused if detected charging more, 718,—it should even be an offence, as also falsification of records, 719-20,—all prosecutions recorded so far are against unregistered moneylenders, 721-723, 725,— by refusal to issue fresh licences for some time the number of moneylenders can be soon reduced, 724,—the true name of the moneylender should be insisted on, 729,—moneylenders circularising customers outside the Saorstát should not be allowed to carry on business under false pretences, but legitimate business should not be interfered with, 730-733,—unregistered moneylenders deal indirectly, through women mainly, 734,—married women without property should be prevented from receiving loans from moneylenders, 735-736,—classes from which moneylenders get clients, 737-39,—guarantors who lose their employment, 740,—complainants unwilling to give evidence in Court, 742,— thinks the Moneylenders’ Association only came into existence on the appearance of the Bill, 743-744,—welcomes the Association, 745, —auctioneers acting as unregistered moneylenders only known in Donegal; “Credit Auctions,” 747,—wishes moneylending restricted, 748,—reduction of number of moneylenders would bring down the rate of interest, 749-750,—if the business became safer, the rate would come down, 751-752,—moneylenders act a mean part in endeavouring to turn family bereavements to their own advantage, 755,—public policy should be against permitting moneylenders here to evade the law of England, 757,—Cork’s bad record, 758,—Gárda want standard records, and ample powers, on account of the difficulties in dealing with the business, 759-761,—placing of name and description over the door should be compulsory; 762-764, 769-772,—agrees that the cases might be held in camera, 765-768.

Percival, Mr.—a registered moneylender in business for thirty-five years, 553-554,—rate of interest and other conditions of loans in his business, 555-568,—question whether percentage of his bad debts is fifteen, 569-70,—619-627,—no amendment to the Bill except as regards the rate per cent., suggests thirty-five instead of twenty, 571-577,— miscalculation of rate of interest, 578-588, 598-610,—married women get loans if two sureties sign their bill; husband need not be one of the sureties, 589-594,—no rebate given for early payment, 630,—court experience, 631-643,—disapproves of giving loans to married women without husband’s knowledge, but does so if two sureties sign, 635.

Solomons, Mr. Julius,—is a moneylender, who accepts security, not acceptable in banks, and charges ten per cent. interest; without security he charges forty-eight per cent.; these rates have been held to be reasonable in court, 1151-1153,—approves of husbands being informed of loans made by wives, 1155,—points out the existence of misleading advertisements, 1155,—disapproves of circularising by moneylenders, 1155,—his customers are merchants and professional men, 1157-1158,—twenty per cent. is too small, 1160,— save where good security is given, 1162-64,—approves of the rate of forty-eight per cent. mentioned in the Bill, 1167, 1183-1186, 1200,— bad debts amount to one-third, 1168,—difficulty of excluding persons who borrow to gamble, 1170-1174,—lower rate of interest in America compensated by an investigation fee, 1177-1178,—does not think moneylenders ought to be restricted to one profession, 1179-1181,—his method of dealing with defaulting cases, 1187-1190,—provision in the promissory note for a higher interest after default, 1191-1192,—taking cases to Court is not always advisable, 1193-1195,—lends money in a big way for productive purposes, 1196-1199.

T., Miss,—is secretary to a limited liability company in Dublin doing business almost entirely outside the Saorstát, 431-437,—issues circulars, and advertisement, 438-439,—asks for an amendment to the Bill permitting advertisements to issue outside Saorstát; agrees that inside Saorstát they should not be permitted, 442-451, 478-480,— evasion of English law, 455-65,—business with well-to-do clients, 468-469, 495,—forty-eight per cent. charged, 470,—money not repaid in a majority of cases, 481-487,—no English office or agents, 492-495,— dealings with substantial clients who are unwilling to go into Court, 496-498.

Toohey, Mr. Philip,—thinks that the Bill favours the Cross-Channel moneylenders, 328,—the rate of interest proposed in Section 11 will wipe out the small lender, whose business is necessary, 328,—miscalculation by him of the rate of interest charged by moneylenders, 329-343,—disagrees with former witness’s statement that losses amount to ten per cent.; estimates these at one-third, 344-347,—no fines for lapsed payments, 349,—rebates given to borrowers paying up before date, 352,—conditions of loans given by him, 355-358, 405-414,—rate of interest and of gross and net profit of moneylenders of his acquaintance, 369-377,—some black sheep in the fold of moneylenders, 378-391, —will lend to married women only if they have means of their own, 393-394,—deducts arrears as well as interest from the amount borrowed, 395-397,—keeping clients on books, 398-402,—threats of exposure, 403-404,—his Court experience, 415-419,—lending by pawnbrokers, rate of interest, security, 420-430.