Committee Reports > List of Committees > Joint > 1924 > Committee on Temporary Accommodation of the Oireachtas > Report - Temporary Accommodation for the Oireachtas [Seanad Éireann]

SEANAD EIREANN.

TUARASGABHAIL AN CHO-CHOISTE AR ARUS SEALADACH DON OIREACHTAS.

REPORT OF THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE TEMPORARY ACCOMMODATION OF THE OIREACHTAS.

1. Is (1) le rún do rith Dáil Eireann 24 Eanair, 1924, agus (2) le rún do rith Seanad Eireann, 25 Eanair, 1924, do bunuíodh an Cho-Choiste a ceapadh chun cúrsaí Arus Sealadach don Oireachtas do bhreithniú. Sidiad mar leanas na Rúin sin fé seach:—

(1) Rún Dháil Eireann:—

“DE BHRI gur gá gan a thuille moille féachaint chun árus ceart do sholáthar don Oireachtas:

Ar an abhar san beartuítear agus táthar á bheartú leis seo:—

(1) Go gceaptar Coiste a bheidh co-dhéanta do chúigear ball, a ainmneoidh an Coiste Roghnathóireachta, chun fiosrú do dhéanamh agus tuairisc do thabhairt uatha i dtaobh an áruis shealadaigh a bheidh ag an Oireachtas go dtí go bhfaghfar buan-árus do.

(2) Go n-iarrtar ar Sheanad Eireann a cho-oiread ball den tSeanad do cheapa chun fónamh ar an gCoiste sin agus go gcuirtear Teachtaireacht dá réir sin go dtí Seanad Eireann.

(3) Go dtugaidh an Coiste tuairisc uatha fé cheann sé seachtmhaine ó dháta a gcéad chruinnuithe.”

(2) Rún Sheanad Eireann:—

“Go ngéillidh an Seanad don ní atá i dteachtaireacht Dháil Eireann: ‘(1) Go gceap tar Coiste a bheidh co-dhéanta de chúigear ball, a ainmneoidh an Coiste Roghnathóireachta, chun fiosrú do dhéanamh agus tuairisc do thabhairt uatha i dtaobh an áruis shealadaigh a bheidh ag an Oireachtas go dtí go bhfaghfar buan-árus do; (2) Go n-iarrtar ar Sheanad Eireann a cho-oiread ball den tSeanad do cheapa chun fónamh ar an gCoiste sin agus go gcuirtear Teachtaireacht dá réir sin go dtí Seanad Eireann; (3) Go dtugaidh an Coiste tuairisc uatha fé cheann sé seachtmhaine ó dháta a gcéad chruinnuithe; ’

agus go n-iarrtar ar an gCoiste Roghnathóireachta ainmneacha cúigear ball den tSeanad do rogha, le leaga fé bhráid an tSeanaid.”

2. Ar thuairisciú do sna Coistí Roghnathóireachta sa dá Thigh do réir na nithe a cuireadh ortha fé seach agus atá sna Rúin sin, do ceapadh iad so leanas le hOrduithe ón Dáil agus ón Seanad fé seach chun gníomhú ar an gCó-Choiste:—

An Tiarna Lannaibhidh, Aindrias Mac Séamais, Seán O Fearghaill, Siobhán Bean an Phaoraigh agus Mícheál O Deagha; agus

Peadar O hAodha, Liam Mag Aonghusa, Brian Cúipéir, Tomás de Nógla, agus Donncha O Guaire.

3. Tháinig an Có-Choiste le chéile cúig uaire ó bunuíodh é. Do scrúduigh sé an tslí atá le fáil i dTigh Laighean agus san Ospidéal Ríoga i gCill Mhaighneann. Do bhreithnigh sé na hargóintí i bhfabhar agus i gcoinnibh roinnt ionad eile sa chathair do ghlaca. Chuaidh sé i gcomhairle fé dhó le buíon toscairí o Chumann Ríoga Bhaile Atha Cliath. Bhí lucht an Chó-Choiste ar aon intinn sna comhairlí ar a dtánadar.

4. Sidiad mar leanas na comhairlí ar a dtáinig an Có-Choiste:—

(i.) Gurb iad amháin atá oiriúnach mar ionaid, agus ina bhfuil an minimum riachtanach de shlí istigh, agus atá ar fáil fé láthair no is féidir a chur ar fáil chun a sealbhuithe laistigh d’aimsir réasúnta agus gan cóstas as cuimse ná: Tigh Laighean, an tOspidéal Ríoga i gCill Mhaighneann, agus na príomh-fhoirgintí agus na foirgintí eile atá i gcearnóg Chlós Uachtarach Chaisleán Bhaile Atha Cliath. Bheadh slí níos fairsinge agus níos caothúla san Ospidéal Ríoga agus i gCaisleán Bhaile Atha Chliath ná mar a bheadh i dTigh Laighean. Ach mar gheall ar a dheacracht do lucht gnótha agus do lucht gairme na Cathrach dul amach chun an Ospidéil Ríoga ní fhéadfadh an Co-Choiste a mhola go ndéanfí rogha den ionad san. Rud eile is deimhin leis an gCó-Choiste, sara mbeadh sé réasúnta oiriúnach chun a shealbhuithe, nár mhór £70,000 ar a luíod do chaitheamh leis an obair a bhainfadh le dul isteach ann agus le hatharuithe tigh-chreatlaigh, agus níor bh’fhéidir na hatharuithe sin do dhéanamh laistigh de thréimhse ba lú ná bliain agus is dócha nár mhór bliain go leith chuige. Faid a beifí ag feitheamh mar sin do caithfí fanúint i dTigh Laighean agus dul fé a-a thuille costais nár bheag le rá chun an áit a dhéanamh oiriúnach do riachtanaisí an Oireachtais a bheadh ag dul i méid i gcaitheamh na tréimhse sin. Ní raibh os a chomhair ag an gCó-Choiste an t-abhar as a bhféadfí a mheas cadí an tréimhse a chaithfidh imeacht sara mbeidh an buan-árus soláthruithe, ach ní gnó praiticiúil, dar leis an gCoiste, suim chó mór le £70,000 do chaitheamh agus moill chó fada do dhéanamh chun árus ná beadh ach sealadach do sholáthar, go mór mór o thárla go bhfuil an tOspidéal suidhte chó neachaothúil sin.

(ii) Ar an dtaobh eile den scéal áfach tá suidheamh an Chaisleáin go han-oiriúnach agus maran láithreach bonn, is go luath, d’fhéadfí dul isteach ann, agus ní bheadh an caitheamh rómhór. Ach níor bhfoláir don Chó-Choiste cuimhneamh go bhfuil sé ceaptha do sna Cúirteanna Breithiúntais cheana féin agus gur cuireadh iad isteach ann tar éis airgead do chaitheamh le hatharuithe agus le feistiú ba ghá agus, maran féidir áit oiriúnach eile atá ar fáil do sholáthar dóibh, ní féidir don Chó-Choiste a mhola go ndéanfí rogha den Chaisleán.

(iii.) De bharr an dá áit sin do dhúna amach, níl fágtha ach Tigh Laighean. Is ró-léir don Chó-Choiste a nea-mbúntáistí agus a nea-dhóthanaí atá sé fiú amháin mar árus sealadach ach is dó leo gur féidir luíodú maith a dhéanamh ar na nithe sin má tógtar na coda den bhfoirgint atá ar seilbh fós ag Cumann Ríoga Bhaile Atha Cliath, lasmuich de sna coda san a bhaineann leis an Saotharlann Radium. Ar na coda a tógfí amhlaidh bheadh dhá sheomra fhairsinge órnáidithe ar an gcéad úrlár agus dhá sheomra chó-réire ar an dara húrlár, seomraí ina mbeadh slí go leor i gcóir suidheanna an tSeanaid, ’na bhfuil slí chó cumhang acu fé láthair, agus i gcóir na gCoistí a dheighleálann le Billí Príobháideacha. Mar fhreagra ar iarratas ón gCó-Choiste tháinig buíon láidir toscairí o Chumann Ríoga Bhaile Atha Cliath go dtí ceann de sna cruinnithe, agus ba dheas uatha é, agus do chuireadar in úil go dian gurb é a dtuairim, tar éis triail na bliana atá caithte, gur chuaidh sé go mór chun dochair agus chun ceataí don Chumann an tOireachtas do bheith i seilbh agus dá leantí den tseilbh sin agus dá leathanuítí í gur mhór an chontabhairt do shéan an Chumainn é mara gcuireadh sé deire leis an gCumann. D’aontuigh an Co-Choiste go hiomlán leo nuair adubhradar gur éirigh roinnt céadta ball as an gCumann de bharr an ní sin ach is dó leo gurb iad riachtanaisí an tSaorstáit is mó le rá agus is ceart a bheith ar tosach, go mór mór ós deimhin leo gur féidir an cheataí agus an chailliúint airgid a bhain don Chumann cheana agus a bhainfidh dóibh fós do luíodú go mór tré árus sealadach do sholáthar dóibh in áit éigin eile agus cúiteamh airgid a thabhairt dóibh. Na hoibreacha móra gnótha agus ceárdais atá ar siúl acu, le hoiread creidiúna dhóibh féin agus le hoiread sochair don tír, is ag Droichead na Dothra bhíd sin, san áit ina mbíd na Taisbeántaisí acu, ach is chun aoibhnis chuideachtanais do sna baill agus chun taisbeántaisí eolaíochta agus ceoil is mó a húsáidtí Tigh Laighean. Tháinig na Toscairí go dtí cruinniú eile den Chó-Choiste agus i dtéanta luighe ar na hagóidí a bhí curtha in úil cheana acu do shíneadar isteach ráiteas ar a gcúis agus, ar a iarraidh sin dóibh, do chuir an Chó-Choiste an ráiteas san le n-a dtuarasgabháil mar fho-scríbhinn. Sé tuairim an Chó-Choiste gur chóir gurb é gnó an Rialtais slí go leor do sholáthar i bhfoirgint éigin oiriúnach in aice le Tigh Laighean mar sheomraí léitheoireachta agus mar leabharlann iasachtach thiomchuir do bhaill Chumann Ríoga Bhaile Atha Cliath amháin no neachtar acu oiread airgid do sholáthar dóibh agus is gá chun a chur ar a gcumas árus sealadach mar sin do sholáthar dóibh féin. Níor dhearmhad an Có-Choiste go dtiocfidh as nách mór iomlán Tighe Laighean a bheith tógtha suas ag an Oireachtas, fiú, amháin go ceann tamaill, go gcaithfar tuille airgid a chaitheamh agus tuille maith mór, leis, i dteanta cúitimh do Chumann Ríoga Bhaile Atha Cliath, ach bíodh go mbeadh an costas iomlán geairid don mhéid a bhainfadh leis an Ospidéal Ríoga do chur in oiriúint bheadh an méid seo le rá fós i bhfabhar do rogha dhéanamh de Thigh Laighean, sé sin, nár ghá don Oireachtas aistriú as an áit ina bhfuil sé, agus bíodh go mbeadh an scéal cothrom eatorra maidir le nithe eile, tá Tigh Laighean i gceartlár na cathrach agus tugann san búntáiste dho ar an áit eile. Rud eile: tá na Teachtaí agus na Seanadóirí tagtha ina thaithí agus le corp taithí tá sé gan bheith ró-dheacair dóibh cur suas le pé nea-chaothúlacht a bhaineann leis. Dá bhrí sin molann an Có-Choiste iomlán Tighe Laighean d’fháil agus do chimeád, ach amháin na coda atá luaidhte cheana, bíodh go bhfuil a fhios acu nách réiteach thar barr ar an bhfaidh b san ach réiteach atá do-sheachanta agus an scéal mar atá sé. San am gcéanna tá súil ag an gCó-Choiste, ar mhaithe leis an gCumann go scarfar le seilbh Tighe Laighean chó luath agus is féidir é gan dochar do riachtanaisí an Oireachtais.

(iv) Mar bhuille scuir, ba mhaith leis an gCó-Choiste luighe ar an méid seo: o bhí ortha claoi go dian leis na téarmaí scóipe, le cúrsaí áruis shealadaigh amháin, níl aon bhaint ag na nithe atá ráite acu i dtaobh na n-ionad ndefriúil le cúrsaí buan-árus do sholáthar agus ní ceart leigint do sna nithe sin éinne do chlaona chun aon taoibh sna cúrsaí sin.

5. Tuairiscíonn an Chó-Choiste dá réir sin.

12adh Márta, 1924.

APPENDIX ABOVE REFERRED TO.

ROYAL DUBLIN SOCIETY.

OCCUPATION OF LEINSTER HOUSE BY DÁIL EIREANN.

The Royal Dublin Society was established in the year 1731 for the promotion of Husbandry and other useful Arts and Sciences.

It is the oldest body of its kind in Europe.

The Museums, Botanic Gardens, National Library and Art School were founded far back in the eighteenth century by the Society and, through the watchful care of the Society, with its intimate knowledge of local requirements had been brought to a high state of efficiency. This work was carried on by the Society with funds derived from Members’ subscriptions and donations, together with a surplus balance of successful Agricultural Shows held on the Lawn and Lands around Leinster House.

In addition, Grants were made by the Treasury of from £5,000 to £10,000 annually to be expended in like manner.

For many years prior to 1877 the Government had been urged to increase these Grants to enable the Society to extend the usefulness of the Institutions named. This, however, the Government declined to do, unless on the condition that the whole expenditure should be administered by a Department directly responsible to Parliament.

The terms under which the Society would consent to this change were agreed upon and the Dublin Science and Art Museum Act of August, 1877, ensued. This Act transferred the lands and buildings of the Royal Dublin Society to the Government. It also transferred the collections of the Society with certain exceptions.

Both transfers were made for the purpose of the Act which purposes are by the Act declared to be:—To promote the study of Science, Art, and Literature in Ireland; to erect a Science and Art Museum; to establish a National Library; and to maintain the Royal Dublin Society in the exercise of its functions.

The Society had expended £48,600 on the real part of the property to be transferred irrespective of the Collections, and in 1877 it was estimated that its value at the time of the passing of the Act had increased to £75,000.

Of the £48,600, £47,700 had been expended by the Society out of its own funds on the purchase of Leinster House (£20,000), and the necessary additions and alterations from 1815 to 1877.

The consideration given to the Society in 1877 for the land and collections named was a sum of £10,000, and, in the words of the Act of Parliament: “Such other considerations as may be agreed upon or would accrue to the Society.”

What these “other considerations” were to be had already been settled in various interviews which took place between the then Chief Secretary for Ireland, the Secretary of the Treasury, and representatives of the Society.

Briefly the principal ones were:—

(a) Occupancy of Leinster House free of Rent, Rates and Taxes, and that a free and liberal consideration shall be accorded to the wants of the Society in this direction.

(b) This Society to be allowed to contniue to hold its Agricultural Shows, etc., on the Lawn and Lands around the House.

In order to effect the Agreement come to the Society’s Representatives met in conference Lord Sandon, representing the Educational Department, the Right Hon. W. H. Smith, M.P., the Treasury, and Sir Michael Hicks-Beech, Bart., the Irish Government. The Society’s delegates submitted that £75,000 was the estimated value of the Society’s property proposed to be surrendered and claimed for the Society full compensation therefor; after which the Government submitted an outline of its proposal, which, with some modifications, was that subsequently agreed to, the grounds put forward by the Government being that all that was proposed was for the advancement and public advantage of Ireland, which should be encouraged by the Society, and repeated assurances were throughout given by the Government representatives to the Society’s delegates that the agreement which should be come to with the Society would, at all times, be construed and carried out in the most generous and liberal way towards the Society, that Government had no other desire or intention; upon the faith of which and in order that Ireland should not lose the great benefits so promised to be conferred on it by the proposed Act, the proposals were acceded to by the Society’s delegates. Throughout these negotiations the Society was not represented by either a Parliamentary Agent, Counsel or Solicitor, which demonstrates the Society’s desire to carry out in the spirit of what was best for Ireland rather than demanding its legal rights.

Consequent on the transference of a portion of the Society’s work and staff to the Government, the Society consented to receive temporarily an inconvenient amount of accommodation in Leinster House pending the erection of new buildings for the Science and Art Department contemplated by the Act. Relief was partly given in this direction on the completion of the Museum, etc., and further accommodation was promised when the erection of Government Administrative buildings in the vicinity were completed. An additional room was granted to the Society by the Department in 1921.

The Chief Secretary for Ireland in 1877, when the Act dealing with this subject was before Parliament was informed by the Council of the Society in response to his enquiry that “the accommodation which the Society will require in Leinster House depends on the functions which it shall in future perform. It is accordingly impossible to state the exact amount of accommodation which would suffice; but the Council are of opinion that it would be advisable to reserve for the use of the Society the whole of Leinster House.”

The spirit undoubtedly prevailing and since acted up to was to treat the Society with a liberality which its work and traditions deserved, especially as it had been freed from the control of a Government Department and as a voluntary institution unaided by State subsidies should be given that opportunity of carrying on its valuable work with greater energy, and that increased facilities for that work would be required by the time the Library and Museum Buildings, then in course of construction, were completed.

In 1880 it was found advisable by the Government to recommend the discontinuance of the holding of the Society’s Shows around the House as provided for in (b). The Government offered an alternative site in Phoenix Park together with a grant of £20,000.

Ultimately it was agreed in consideration of the payment to the Society by the Government of £25,000 the Society should discontinue holding the Shows in Kildare Street, and with the grant the Society purchased a portion of the present Ballsbridge Site and removed certain Halls from the vicinity of the House and re-erected same at Ballsbridge. One Hall was purchased from the Society by the Government for £1,000 and continues to be an annexe to the present Museum (Textile Exhibit).

In 1897 the present Lecture Theatre and Laboratories were erected and furnished at a cost of approximately £15,000 towards which the Government contributed £5,000. This building replaced a previous Lecture Theatre which had become totally inadequate for the growing demands of Members and the Public interested in the Society’s Scientific and Educational work.

At the time the Act of 1877 was passed the future of the Society was uncertain. Many anticipated that the loss of Government support would cause the Society to dwindle into insignificance, but the Council, recognising to the full the great asset it still retained in its headquarters, Leinster House, and the privileges accorded of occupying it free of Rent, Rates and Taxes, a very vital financial consideration, worked with an enthusiasm to provide an institution which would be recognised as worthy of support in the educational life of Ireland. The reconstruction of its governing body providing for three sections, each with its recognised duties and responsibilities, has resulted in the Society becoming even stronger. Its work to-day is unequalled by any other similar body and referred to throughout the world as a striking illustration of the Country’s practicability by the voluntary active service of the Members of the Society’s Council and Committees which is the means of producing such excellent results in the many spheres of its activities.

This has been possible by Leinster House being the “hub” within and around which the Society has enhanced its reputation and Members have flocked to its support.

When the late General Michael Collins, after inspecting the House among several others, expressed a desire to hold the first Provisional Government Assembly in the Lecture Theatre his wish was most readily complied with by the Society as a National necessity. General Collins generously acknowledged the offer and expressed the hope to the Society’s Director that the great inconvenience caused to the Society would not exceed eight months. Nearly two years have now elapsed, and the present decentralisation is seriously affecting and jeopardising the work of the Society, apart from it incurring additional expenses (at present approximately £500) by the renting of Theatres, etc., and increased temporary staff rendered necessary in continuing the Society’s usual operations.

The Society’s work and functions are now scattered between most unsatisfactory rooms in Molesworth Street (provided by the Office of Works),Leinster House, Royal College of Surgeons, Theatre Royal, and Ballsbridge.

Upwards of 650 old Members (representing an income of £1,400 a year) have resigned on account of the restricted privileges now available in Leinster House, and this wastage must continue unless the serious problem, from the Society’s standpoint, is quickly solved.

The Council therefore ask that the Theatre and various rooms occupied by the Government be returned to the Society by not later than the end of the present year.

It is the considered opinion of the Council that if the present occupancy of Leinster House continues, the Society must necessarily become disintegrated. Members will not consent to the indefinite curtailment of their privileges, and the separate administration of the several branches of the Society’s work must inevitably destroy the bond which has hitherto held the Society together and enabled it to do what it has done.

The Council crave that the Government will grant the Society the earliest relief from its present unfortunate position. It is not a mere private advantage for the Members of the Society which they now ask but those reasonable facilities on purely public grounds, and with the desire to promote the welfare of Ireland which has been the one actuating impulse of the Society during the nearly two centuries of its existence.

Dated the 6th March, 1924.

Leinster House,

Dublin.